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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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A collection of arguments for the Fields of Gold plan over two wizards:

1. Panoramia is a Jade Wizard currently set up with the Halflings and working with them in order to help them set up food production and growth. Her synergy is practically maximized on her own initiative and trying to direct her would provide very little benefit.

2. Action efficiency. Spending one action to guide two journeymen is far less efficient than spending one action to guide one journeyman and one magister. Johann equals or eclipses us in skill.

3. Character fidelity. It is highly in keeping with both the mindset of the Grey College, and the tenets of Ranald, to punish someone by trapping them in their own con.

4. Hilarity. ...Come on, ordering around a fellow Magister because he thought it was a good idea to pretend to be a Journeyman is a gutbuster no matter how you look at it.
 
DragonParadox said:
Actually yes safer than using less magic, being a warrior priest of Sigmar for instance is a lot safer on a battlefield than being just a knight with no ability to smite your enemies.
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I think you should compare hero units to hero units, not regular (if elite) troops.
So valid comparison would be to Captain of the Empire, Battle Wizard, Master Engineer or Witch Hunter.

Which, IIRC, are all fairly comparable with WP? Well, Battle Wizard is the most !!FUN!! one, but otherwise...

Oh, wait, most Knights are even core, not elite, picks.
 
ctulhuslp said:
I think you should compare hero units to hero units, not regular (if elite) troops.
So valid comparison would be to Captain of the Empire, Battle Wizard, Master Engineer or Witch Hunter.

Which, IIRC, are all fairly comparable with WP? Well, Battle Wizard is the most !!FUN!! one, but otherwise...

Oh, wait, most Knights are even core, not elite, picks.
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I'm comparing people to people, nor arbitrary gameplay categories.
 
Prospalz said:
It is not named "scholar of the divine" or anything of sort, tho. It is a quality, not a skill or knowledge.

From vocabularly description of the word and what little we have of the trait's description, I personally, strongly believe that her gaining the trait would be an overall improvement of her ability to channel Ranald.

Not like, Lore of Ranald, but being like Ranald. Embodying his qualities and virtues.
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It might. It could also make it easier for Tzeentch and other to control her. I'm all for taking risks, but this is too much.
 
With the recent(ish) reveal that we can't badger a college member into making a staff for us, I'd like to bang on the "we should make our staff post-haste guys!" drum some more.

Obviously it's yet another action-sink, but having the +1 magic and any other utility a proper casting focus gives us is valuable in an incredibly broad way.
 
JaceAoT said:
Still thinking about the traits myself.
Just thought I'd share some of my thoughts: I don't think I want to be The Chosen One. I think Mathilde might be remembered by some academics and historians if she were to die back in transit to her new home, but really the world will forget her in time. I think I'm fine with that, moreover I think I like that. I feel I don't want Dame Weber to be famous the world over or remembered forever due to destroying Chaos forever or something like that.

Mathilde is (for a Magister of the Grey Order) fairly average I think. I would like for us to become exceptional (making Lord Magister would be an easy way of measuring this), but aiming for godhood or something similar is not something I'm interested in. Lets just do the wizard-quasi-soldier thing and live life, maybe invent some magic or stop some rebellion. I think that would be fun.

Anyone here feel/think something similar?
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She is fairly extraordinary, I think, if not, like, Karl Franz or whoever of prodigies. But she levelled Drakenhof, one-shotted two Warbosses (because of being a hilariously good assassin), and generally did a fairly impressive for her age(I think?) share of deeds.
As to whether we'd want to be some sort of Chosen One? Well....well, I see no reason to not do the best Mathilde can, but I dislike xianxia-esque endless powerlevel escalation too. So I am not sure where, precisely, do I stand.
 
I am so hyped for the next update's triumphant return of standard turns, even though action economy is likely going to be painful.

Hell, the whole Council is somewhat in Terra Incognita, so I expect the options and plans to be all over the place.

Helping managing an unapologetically radical Dwarf Hold as the first wizard advisor (perhaps even the first human advisor) ever.

This quest keeps reminding me how awesome it is.
 
Neshuakadal said:
First things first. We don't know what it does. So already this trait is on the back foot because we can't plan future actions around this trait. All the other traits allow us to create plans to best use them. This trait just sits there until BoneyM decides he wants to create a scene. It does nothing further Mathilde's goals. It is completely passive in it's existence, relying entirely on author fiat to even trigger. Good traits trigger often and help you do the things you want to do. Or they allow you to do new things you wanted to do but couldn't. This trait does neither.

But! I hear many cry out in anger. Being an avatar is so cool! Is it? Is it cool? Was it cool when Mathilde lost her sense of self. Did Mathilde have fun when she cried over how Gork was betraying her? Being an Avatar is a quick a dirty way to power. Sure you get power but you also loose your sense of self. You loose your goals, dreams and desires. All to become a expression of power for something that likely does not even care about you. You become a puppet on strings and with a puppet master who likely will not care about the damage he does to the puppet. Becoming an Avatar is a sacrifice. It is the last resort to preserve a fading dream. Is Mathilde in such dire straits that we think she needs to give up her free will to survive another sunrise? I really don't think so.
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I think that one of Mathilde's goals is improving the lot of the colleges, which safer spellcasting would definitely do. Theurgy is definitely something we want to do and this trait will probably make it either easier or possible in the first place.

Yes, Yes it was cool, it was cool when Mathilde beat a greenskin motherfucker with another greenskin motherfucker. you do realize that mathilde losing her free will would mean quest over right? we can argue about how good it is all day, but arguing that the mystery box in the goodie selection vote contains a bad end seems really farfetched to me.

Neshuakadal said:
Then there is the phrasing of the trait itself. All the other traits are framed with a neutral or positive tone. This is the only trait framed in a negative tone. Mathilde does not think this is positive. She is worried about having this trait. People don't worry over good things. People worry over things they think is a problem. Why would we inflict this trait, something that Mathilde would worry about, onto Mathilde? Do we really want to see Mathilde fret over the next deity to take a shot at being her puppet master?
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just because someone is worried about something doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. Anton being worried about marriage doesn't mean he should just give up and die alone, for example.

Neshuakadal said:
Do you have a quote to support your idea of Ranald wanting an Avatar? A god creating an Avatar is a massive breech of free will. The god directly intervenes in a situation and acts according to his will, not always to the will of the possessed. This feels like a huge shift from Ranald's MO. He is painted as a god that values free will. As a god that acts in the shadows and tips the scales slightly. Enough to tip the scales but not enough not remove the need for skill from whomever he is helping. Ranald is the very last god I would ever expect to create an Avatar. So I expect Ranald would be the last god to violate our free will and force us to do something.
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First of all I see nothing in the trait description that mentions losing our free will, secondly assuming that the trait we got from helping Ranald steal stuff from another god will have nothing to do with Ranald seems rather silly.
 
[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
I just like them :D
[X] Recruit Johann
Let's build ourselves an Ulgu Cannon :D
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
Let's turn Stirland into a Powerhouse!
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
For Ranald!
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Scout: Sometimes the best weapon is knowing where everything is. +2 Intrigue, +20 to infiltrating all but the highest-security areas.
[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
Mathilde is gonna Mathilde
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
 
killfr3nzy said:
Annoyed yet not overly surprised that Court Wizard won. More annoyed that the arguments in support of it were full of shit frequently based on fantasy.
I would have been enraged if the Marry Me foolishness won, especially after I curtailed my vote to help Marry For Love gain a bigger lead.
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Please either find some chill or take a break from the thread.
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

I am... more than slightly unsure why exactly are people not voting to keep the one "Journeyman" in some degrees of check, even putting aside the somewhat sizeable benefits of having him in the first place. There's the friction between Max and Johann, yes. But that's pretty much it.
 
Vocalend said:
[X] Plan Fields of Gold

I am... more than slightly unsure why exactly are people not voting to keep the one "Journeyman" in some degrees of check, even putting aside the somewhat sizeable benefits of having him in the first place. There's the friction between Max and Johann, yes. But that's pretty much it.
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It could be people are concerned about him going "Nah, don't have to do what you say" and ignoring Mathilde.
 
So on the subject of the wizards do keep in mind that a Jade wizard would be invaluable in ensuring we have a steady stream of herbs for various experiments, not to mention poisons and potions, and can help us deal with things like Skaven plagues or poisons.
 
Ah yes, on a more conventional and less naggey note;

@BoneyM will we be able to influence who gets picked for the other advisory positions, such as when the potential replacement Stirland advisers were researched, or does Mathilde not have enough time/sway/interest/other?
 
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
 
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