Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
ctulhuslp said:
Ah, so other 3 don't take up an action?
Well, that changed calculus and makes things quite easier, thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Read the context of the post I was responding to. All of those would take actions. 4 is the only one that would count as the EIC action.

Sinsystems said:
Say @BoneyM would doing something like setting up a sort of facility for visiting wizards with basics things like a library and a few labs set up be something we can do? I'd imagine that it would help attract some wizards as it would mean that those that come won't have to worry about setting up their own labs.

Also would we be able to attract wizards without having to hire them? Like a sort of general "You can stay here and use the facilities, but you must help out K8P while you are here."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It would be possible to set those facilities up, but understand that K8P is about as remote as it's possible to be while still being safely accessible from the Empire. There's not really a 'just passing by' scenario. If you want to bring Wizards to the area without it costing you to do so, something will have to attract them, and basic facilities alone won't cut it.

TripleG316 said:
@BoneyM does the seed allow us to regrow limbs if they were chopped off? And if the limb chopped off was our arm that was holding the seed, would it still work?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Regrow, no. Reattach, yes.
 
vsh said:
Sure, for Mathilde the Second it would.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...Wait a second.
>Chop hand off with seed in it.
>Mathilde#2 grows from our hand.
>Mathilde#2 gives the seed back to us to regrow the lost hand.
>Repeat for as many Mathilde's as you want.
>Now you can make a council of Mathilde, Mathilde, Mathilde, Mathilde's Wolf, and Mathilde.
Foolproof plan.
 
BoneyM said:
It would be possible to set those facilities up, but understand that K8P is about as remote as it's possible to be while still being safely accessible from the Empire. There's not really a 'just passing by' scenario. If you want to bring Wizards to the area without it costing you to do so, something will have to attract them, and basic facilities alone won't cut it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So at the very least we'd need something rather interesting to the Wizards being in the area and for the facilities we offer to be pretty high quality like master crafted labs with Dwarven panic buttons.
 
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.

It's Empires primary religion. This is a powerful flaw that needs fixing. Sure, the other traits are very nice, and this one give paltry +1 Piety, but don't expect to get rid of this potentially crippling flaw in the future without a similar or greater cost.
 
TripleG316 said:
...Wait a second.
>Chop hand off with seed in it.
>Mathilde#2 grows from our hand.
>Mathilde#2 gives the seed back to us to regrow the lost hand.
>Repeat for as many Mathilde's as you want.
>Now you can make a council of Mathilde, Mathilde, Mathilde, Mathilde's Wolf, and Mathilde.
Foolproof plan.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
But such a council would have a hard time giving you a hand.😜 It's just not as handy as one would expect of a Mathilde-council.
 
BoneyM said:
Read the context of the post I was responding to. All of those would take actions. 4 is the only one that would count as the EIC action.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ah, sorry.
Not sure what does it mean for us whether it's EIC action though...

oohh
It meant that for "Actively manage EIC" action commitment to count, we'd have to do stuff on order of "magnitude"/investment of 4th?
Sorry, I feel slow today.
 
BoneyM said:
He's still around but I don't know why this keeps getting asked. He is the actual physical embodiment of the complete opposite of innovation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Ah you might have missed this in the past.

SuperSonicSound said:
Hah you're right, it's just we'll have enough free time to do that stuff it's not part of the job unless we think it can be made to help. It probably can because it's almost certainly one of the things that could be used in high end rune magic.

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Granted Mathilde would probably not be aware of this so dicey on that front, but this is an excerpt from the empire army book which suggest's this could be part of the known background lore regarding runefangs.
 
Last edited:
ctulhuslp said:
This implies that a baseline human can safely deal with things which can happen on a road between Stirland and Karak 8 Peaks, latter being an active warzone.
They might be able to. They might not. I'd rather err on side of caution, given that the road in dangerous and Karak far from secure.

I am not precisely sure why are you so convinced a normal person can deal with it - I mean, they might, it all depends on what goes down.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because K8P is in the middle of a pretty lucrative trade routes. Even if trade is not focused here, there will be people coming in K8P to try their luck there due to the large potential it presents. This meant not only mercenaries will be coming there, but also merchants.

Also, the reason why I believe that a normal human can do it is that what we want to do with EIC is help manage it and probably build a branch in K8P. Something anyone with a good business sense can do well. If we are trying to subvert it, then a journeyman will be quite suitable for the job. Otherwise, a normal human is already good enough.
 
Stranger1950 said:
Because K8P is in the middle of a pretty lucrative trade routes. Even if trade is not focused here, there will be people coming in K8P to try their luck there due to the large potential it presents. This meant not only mercenaries will be coming there, but also merchants.

Also, the reason why I believe that a normal human can do it is that what we want to do with EIC is help manage it and probably build a branch in K8P. Something anyone with a good business sense can do well. If we are trying to subvert it, then a journeyman will be quite suitable for the job. Otherwise, a normal human is already good enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I was under impression that "take a more direct action wrt EIC" was a continuation of the whole "EIC is a massive trade empire which will soon rival Elector Count is things go on as they do now". The "do not poke them" is clearly "Leave it alone", both others imply a trust-but-verify relationship, thus meaning not (only) management of local branch (although by recent WoG this explicitly counts as EIC action), but also keeping tabs on the entire EIC and ensuring that they do not overstep any boundaries.
Thus, me thinking anyone we want to delegate to needs to be a capable spy in their own right.


EIC is likely to set up show in K8P anyway, if maybe later without us prodding them to. At least I, personally, was under impression that if we did not want at least some infiltration/insurance that they do not go remotely bad, we should just pick Leave it Alone.
But maybe I read too much into the options, idk.
 
Last edited:
DragonParadox said:
That has literally nothing to do with sorcery though. That would be like arguing that an alliance with the dwarfs has been bad for the Empire because...

*picks grimdark out of hat*

There are sigmarite fanatics in many parts of the Empire that consider all of the other gods false and the miracles of their gods the workigns of Chaos

One does not follow the other at all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yet the argument you are making is that Sorcery will change the world. I question that strongly. Bretonia is just as bad as other places in the old world. If they have sorcerers why is that? If you want to change the world you need to do more than just improve some of the magic users.

We have Bretonia. They have had sorcerers for a long time now. Why isn't the world a better place because of them? We had the Liche priests who were so consumed by the desires for immortality that nothing else mattered to them. They had sorcery. Why isn't the world a better place now? If sorcery could change the world the world would have been changed. Why would we succeed in making the world a better place with sorcery when no one else has? The world is still dark. The world is still stalked by terrors. If sorcery was the game changer you are hoping it is why is the world still so dark and why are there still so many terrors?

Sorcery is something that has been done before. Perhaps the world is slightly better, though with the tomb kings roaming around I doubt that. Yet removing a bucket from the ocean doesn't really help drain the ocean.

One of the main things you have not yet addressed is why people would even pursue Ranald Sorcery. If we did manage it how would we convince people to join in? Ranald has helped us a lot. But he is not the deity I would pick if I wanted to spread sorcery around quickly. Not many people like him and those who do often don't admit it.

Quest said:
This isn't about optimal. This is about narrative. We study the Liber Mortis and we learn secrets of magic, how shyish can be used to manipulate Dhar. It gives us a good theoretical understanding, but how do we use it? That knowledge can serve as the backbone for using Ulgu to manipulate other winds and forms of power. This is where we'll get the basis of manipulating Ranald's power with Ulgu.

But to do that we need to understand gods. Where do they come from? Where does the power of a god end and the god itself begin? What is the difference between color magic and divine power? This comparison brings another question to our mind. Gods are beings of the warp. But so are daemons. What's the difference? Daemons are often much closer to the winds of magic and wouldn't you look at it? We have this Daemon trapped in a prison of glass in a curious state of dead and alive. It's blood flows endlessly before us. What secrets can we extract from it? We've called the blood Liquid Quaysh and looked at it as a source of power, but it's part of the daemon. It's blood. Where does that end and begin? We can learn much of the nature of the warp and it's denizens.

Then armed with this knowledge, you look into a god's divine power. Find out where it begins to differ from the winds we wield. If the blood of a daemon can be used as a source of power, why not the energy of a god? Priests certainly do it.

Ulgu-Ranaldian magic is a final endgame goal, but it's not like we can't reach it by pursuing our other goals and research topics.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am not questioning how we would reach sorcery. That path is fairly well guessed at. I am wondering why we should. You have given a lot of examples of what we could learn. But with no examples of how that would help anyone. Ulgu sorcery is simply a tool. What do you hope to achieve with it? Can other means achieve the same result?



Perhaps what I am most disappointed in with Sorcery is how it is just a tool. People are raising this tool on a platform and saying how amazing it would be. How it is the end game goal. Is that all we want with Mathilde's life? To create a tool? What do we even want to do with that tool? And most importantly are their faster ways to do the same things we would do with sorcery?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Ah you might have missed this in the past.

Granted Mathilde would probably not be aware of this so dicey on that front, but this is an excerpt from the empire army book which suggest's this could be part of the known background lore regarding runefangs.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's from 4th Edition, and AFAIK neither dragon nor daemon blood have been mentioned on this side of 1993.
 
Last edited:
BoneyM said:
That's from 4th Edition, and AFAIK neither dragon nor daemon blood have been mentioned on this side of 1993.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That's fair, I'm just not sure what you're synthesizing together for your view of the setting so I'm just randomly going through all my books for stuff that might be relevant to our situation and seeing what sticks :p I hope i'm not annoying you with these questions if I am let me know and i'll drop it.
 
Neshuakadal said:
Yet the argument you are making is that Sorcery will change the world.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not arguing that it will change the world in all ways, just like it does not inherently fix class inequality in Bretonia it won't magically make the Sigmarite fanatics go away. This was about making the lives of wizards better and safer and giving the Empire another tool to fight off the Ruinous powers and other omnicidal enemies.

As for how we are going to convince people to practice Ranald Sorcery, well a significant number of Grey Wizard already worship him and I imagine they like the prospect of exploding and being possessed as little as anyone else in that position
 
SuperSonicSound said:
That's fair, I'm just not sure what you're synthesizing together for your view of the setting so I'm just randomly going through all my books for stuff that might be relevant to our situation and seeing what sticks :p I hope i'm not annoying you with these questions if I am let me know and i'll drop it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, you're fine. Just be aware that on one end of the GW timeline there's Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau and on the other end there's Sigmarines, so there has to be some level of picking and choosing to make a working setting.
 
@BoneyM what does Mathilde know about the Brotherhood? According to the information in the Cult of Ranald part of the wiki, it's described as:
The first, and easily the largest, is composed of merchants, hagglers, and those that make their living dealing with money. Known simply as "The Brotherhood," this sect forms something akin to a guild of businessmen, who meet together to sort out their differences, seek mutual opportunities, and plot to increase their wealth. Most are honest merchants who call upon Ranald for bounty and improved commerce, although there is a seedier lesser order that exists (see later in this section). The Brotherhood teaches the tenets of cooperation and competition—help your brother when he needs it—but through competition, the best elements rise to the top.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Whereas in the page dedicated to it specifically it seems to imply it's more of a standard if gentlemanly thief's guild sort.
The Brotherhood
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
is a mysterious Ranaldian order that stretches all across the Old World, represented in some fashion in nearly every large city. The order is dedicated to one aspect of Ranald: the Night Prowler. To say it is a criminal organisation is not entirely accurate, but not far off either.[1a]
The network supports the work of some of the more adventurous cultists of Ranald in their efforts to steal as much as they can get from the privileged classes. The Brotherhood of Altdorf is particularly secretive as prominent members of the Cults of Sigmar and Verena have pledged to put an end to their activities.[1a]
The order is dedicated to helping fellow members with whatever they need to procure their goods, and to get rid of it for the best price afterwards. One of their best clients, said to be a high-ranking cultist of Ranald himself, is a minor noble who compulsively collects the stolen valuables of other nobles. He is trying to complete his collection of all the Reikland's nobility's snuff boxes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which is true in-universe? And what is the Grey College's party line for them? I'm just considering expansion options for the EIC using our relationship to Ranald. One of the things I've considered is making in-roads with Ranald worshiping merchants.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top