- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
People believe that deamons = Chaos Gods and so with the wog of avatar helping against Chaos God possession believe it will help with regular deamon possession.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Resistance to possession is not the whole of the trait, it is simply the bit BoneyM told us about. Nor am I in any hurry to vote for increased miscast chances.
But I have made several arguments about how it is a likely requirement for Ulgu Sorcery, so maybe you could address those instead of calling a trash pile?
Yes, we have WOG on the matter. Basically it let's us do other stuff while being possessed, plus whatever other effects it has (because mystery box). I like it because narrative!y, being resistant and able to act while channeling Divine power certainly seems like the kind of thing that would be a prerequisite to Sorcery.
Well we have canon quote baking it up, so unless and until @BoneyM speaks against it I'd say it's a fair case.
Increasing possession resistance is an overstatement of the effect. What BoneyM actually said was:
Note: more able to try to resist. Not just more able to resist.
- Location
- Austria
I am not sure that's what wording of Boney's answer says - what with "not a problem most people will have in their lifetime", while demon possession is very much a problem most wizards constantly keep in mind.
Besides, not every god is a chaos god and we have acquired the trait via possession by Mork - not quite a chaos god.
So if that's all, I...see where you are coming from, but not convinced.
Considering that it is a mystery box option, it would make sense for Boney to conceal the meat of the upgrade. I personally believe it to be an increase in our connection to Ranald/ability to manipulate the Divine. It would make sense for that kind of familiarity to help you resist a possession.
The sentence is meaningless if you parse the words like that yes, but in that case there's no point in addressing the matter at all.
Every sentence is meaningless if you just give up on interpreting them.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
We also have this:
EDIT: The trait basically seems like the divine possession equivalent of being used to combat. If you are a rank amateur, you will likely freeze up in combat or just back down and be unable to do anything. You are also just as likely to hinder as you are to help allies. Someone who is blooded or trained can instead choose to run away/fight back/work with allies for better results.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
[X] Plan Role Model for the Younglings
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
[X] Plan Role Model for the Younglings
Yes, but saying 'X will allow you to try and do Y' with the unspoken subtext of 'Y is impossible' is fundamentally deceptive. Now I don't belive @BoneyM would try to trick us with WoG so I went with meaningless.
- Location
- Planet Earth
Can I just take a moment to comment on how you're calling a mystery box an absolute trash level trait, while only discussing or even mentioning a single effect from it that isn't even mentioned in the actual trait, but that came up when someone wanted a WOG because people were fearmongering about it?
Have you discussed or even mentioned any of the theories on how it might make it easier to channel Ranald and in so doing receive a massive boost in combat power? No.
Have you discussed or even mentioned any of the WOG confirmation on how it would make it easier to research our idea of reverse sorcery, using Ulgu to manipulate divine energy? No.
Have you discussed or even mentioned that this is very much a mystery box and will have effects beyond those mentioned in the description and the WOGs? No.
Bloody hell, have you discussed or even mentioned the actual fucking description of the trait?! No.
As it might be useful if you wish to continue such discussion, here you go.
[ ] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
Please note, we've got 2 things here. 1) familiarity with being the conduit of deities, which will almost always be Ranald, who's not only a chill god, but one who probably considers Mathilde his favorite mortal, and regularly supplies us with luck guidance and just recently an legend tier artifact. 2) we have ??? what exactly those question marks mean, we don't know, but they're probably not "nothing" like I'd have to assume if your post was all the info I had on the trait.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
So I found the miscast table that refers to deamonic possession. I found a copy of the 2e edition table online under the major miscasts. Here is what it says.
So definitely not the game ender some believe it to be. While bad the possession lasts for only one minute. Unless we are concerned about the deamon killing us while in control it certainly doesn't seem worth spending a trait on just to help deal with.
So definitely not the game ender some believe it to be. While bad the possession lasts for only one minute. Unless we are concerned about the deamon killing us while in control it certainly doesn't seem worth spending a trait on just to help deal with.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
[X] Plan 2 wizards
I was going to leave this part of the vote blank, but then people said that Pan is going to stick around anyways and we can just pick her up later, which triggered ne so hard I momentarily became Pansexual.
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
Of course once my mind came up with the Pansexual joke I had to vote for everyone.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
Now, I am not saying we absolutely should channel Nagash's nascently divine soul and beat it up for lunch money, but I am saying that if the opportunity arises I will vote for it almost no matter the costs.
Of course, the real risk of Avatar is not that we are possessed by the Chaos Gods, but that we are possessed by Sigmar. Absolute worst cases scenario is if Sigmar channels his power through us at a very helpful time so we can't in any way justify getting that nasty god out of our soul, and we have to begrudgingly accept help from the objectively worst God.
[X] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
It goes without saying that when you wrestle with Gods, you can't affor to hesistate-
Also, I am having way too much fun hating Sigmar to accept Polytheist as a Trait. Now, if it just was increased acceptance from every religion except Sigmarrites I would be all over it, but it isn't and those bastards know what they did!
I was going to leave this part of the vote blank, but then people said that Pan is going to stick around anyways and we can just pick her up later, which triggered ne so hard I momentarily became Pansexual.
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
Of course once my mind came up with the Pansexual joke I had to vote for everyone.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
Now, I am not saying we absolutely should channel Nagash's nascently divine soul and beat it up for lunch money, but I am saying that if the opportunity arises I will vote for it almost no matter the costs.
Of course, the real risk of Avatar is not that we are possessed by the Chaos Gods, but that we are possessed by Sigmar. Absolute worst cases scenario is if Sigmar channels his power through us at a very helpful time so we can't in any way justify getting that nasty god out of our soul, and we have to begrudgingly accept help from the objectively worst God.
[X] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
It goes without saying that when you wrestle with Gods, you can't affor to hesistate-
Also, I am having way too much fun hating Sigmar to accept Polytheist as a Trait. Now, if it just was increased acceptance from every religion except Sigmarrites I would be all over it, but it isn't and those bastards know what they did!
The daemon could kill us while it's in control, it could also take off the belt and taint Mathilde's soul with Dhar until she is stark raving mad with the corruption.
- Location
- Austria
Issue I am having is that we were possessed by Mork, not Ranald.
Combined with the facts we had an option to accept Mork's power in the vote after the possession (we chose to steal it for Ranald instead) and have consistently been better than Shamans at manipulating Waagh energy, I am somewhat entertaining the notion it is an option to be possessed-ish by Ork gods, not Ranald. It is reaching, for sure, but I do not recall ever being possessed by Ranald(?), so I do not consider it more reaching than assumption people are running with that it is Avatar of specifically Ranald.
You are continuing to ignore the other arguments for the trait in favor of strawmanning. Please stop.
Being possessed by Mork would be immediately fatal, since he hates us. None of the other traits are at all negative, so why do you assume this one would be?
Also, the trait description isn't really about possession, per se. Its about being used as a conduit, like when Ranald used us like a straw to suck up a chunk of Mork's power.
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Slynnwen
She/Her
- Location
- Fomalhaut B
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
- Location
- The Star Kingdom of Manticore
I am sorry I am still pulling research for your argument. It's just that this argument seems to be a major sticking point for people concerned about it. Don't worry I am still building my argument against Ulgu sorcery.
Obviously, since the Empire's borders end at Black Fire Pass.
I just put the 'ck2' and 'warhammer' tags on, and every now and then prune any that annoy me. I don't really know where they come from.
There's an entire lexicon of English words to describe the different relationship religious entities can have with one another, and that's from a world where daemons aren't pouring out of the North Pole. Anyone that thinks that daemonic identity is simple is setting themselves up for one hell of a bad time.
Feel free. The only reason possession was brought up in the first place was because of fearmongering, so I'm happy to move on.
Fair point thank you for the reply . Also technically daemons are pouring out of both poles, this of course makes things much better.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Let me ask a question: Do people genuinely think we can do our job well, along with personal improvement, with only two wizards and possibly Avatar (aka, possibly (just consider it) not granting any immediate benefits)? I'm seriously asking, I want to do well is all.