Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Its been analyzed and explained. You might not agree but the points are presented and coherent with what little BoneyM had clarified.
So there some analysis somewhere based on some statements somewhere. That's not helpfull.

It's nearly unique and commemorates a monumental event that is unlikely to be repeated. We know that it helps us resist another divine possession and it's unlikely to be negative because a dwarven soul expert critted his roll to see if the event left any negative effects on us. Some also speculate that it will help us with our divine magic research and others also believe that it will be an amazing trait because of the events surrounding it.
I disagree with your notion that it would have no negative effect. The avatar is literally the image of a God, so it seems inevitable that we would pick up some Ranaldian traits. Those traits would change who Mathilde is, forcing her to pick up some rather terrible personality traits, and give her some physical properties that woukd otherwise be regarded as a cyrse.
 
Just so everyone can keep track, here is what Boney said on the matter of Avatar.

Wait more resistance to Chaos?

Yes, please, I don't even care about the mystery box anymore any wizard can use more of that.

[X] Avatar

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Plan 2 wizards
 
Anyone know if traits listed on character page manifest in form other than being "better at x" IC? Does my, maybe unfounded, fear of avatar trait making Weber a prime target for cultists looking to bring forth high end chao entity hold any water?
 
Wait more resistance to Chaos?

Yes, please, I don't even care about the mystery box anymore any wizard can use more of that.

[X] Avatar

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Take an active hand in the EIC

[X] Plan 2 wizards
Come on, did you not read the rest of that statement? We have bigger problems if we're so likely to run into possession by CHAOS GODS themselves.
 
Wait more resistance to Chaos?

Yes, please, I don't even care about the mystery box anymore any wizard can use more of that
We have a magical belt that beats of Chaos. The choas resistance inherent in the avatar thing us so incredibly niche that it may as well not be there. If one of the chaos gods tries to directly and personally posses us, we're already dead.
 
Last edited:
Just so everyone can keep track, here is what Boney said on the matter of Avatar.
So it could be any number of things interesting. I thought it might have been answered at some point but that really is extremely vague.

It might be revealed after selection and give us a fairly standard bonus in line with the other options. Like +2 Piety and +10 to Sorcery research.

It might remain ??? until we trigger conditions that activate the trait.

It might have a random roll after selection to determine what it grants e.g. roll 1d6 and see if the effects are really good, really bad, or neutral.

Ahh the mystery box. How can anyone resist?
 
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

We can schedule Max's tutelage under his Dwarf smith teacher when we need to collab with Johann, and we're going to want Johan where we can see him. As for him accepting our authority, what choice does he really have? Our capital with the Dwarfs is significantly greater than his, and given our showing I don't think we can even assume he wouldn't respect us to some extent anyways. Our showing over the course of K8P was rock solid, and I don't think anyone smart and rational enough to be a Gold Magister is going to look at someone who cut the knees out from underneath an entire Orcish warband by virtue of utterly wrecking their magic as someone they can afford to irritate. The fact that we are essentially a member of the Empire's secret police just makes this more precarious for him. If we were told his title, then it's easy to infer we were implicitly given permission to mitigate his risk regardless of it. He'll know that.

We potentially own him. We can throw him out of K8P with a word, our College is willing to back us against him, we've presented an absurdly strong front he can't afford to face nor can he go to his College to try and work around him. If he's playing the straight and narrow- than Mathilde is at worst a mild inconvenience too powerful to ignore. If he's planning on trying something, Mathilde is an existential threat that could be anywhere anytime and has reasonable odds against him alone in a white room- which he won't reasonably be able to achieve.

Max will be happy to inform on Johann if he senses anything off with the Winds of Chamon (which we'll also be able to see pretty readily) and can potentially flag any suspicious requisitions. And in the long run? We help Max prep for his own Magister trials and suddenly Johann has another peer capable of checking him.

Far better to get on hers side and at worst bide his time.
 
Come on, did you not read the rest of that statement? We have bigger problems if we're so likely to run into possession by CHAOS GODS themselves.

A daemon is just a shard of the dark gods, if we are better able to defend against possession by the Chaos Gods than we can scoff at most daemonic possession

We have a magical belt that beats of Chaos. The choas resistance inherent in the avatar thing us so incredibly niche that it may as well not be there. If one of the chaos gods tries to directly and personally posses us, we're already dead.

Dhar is not possession. Also the belt can be taken off us. Not so an intrinsic trait.
 
Last edited:
So it could be any number of things interesting. I thought it might have been answered at some point but that really is extremely vague.

It might be revealed after selection and give us a fairly standard bonus in line with the other options. Like +2 Piety and +10 to Sorcery research.

It might remain ??? until we trigger conditions that activate the trait.

It might have a random roll after selection to determine what it grants e.g. roll 1d6 and see if the effects are really good, really bad, or neutral.

Ahh the mystery box. How can anyone resist?
I would assume we won't know until/unless it activates, since Mathilde herself would have no idea.
Dhar is not possession. Also the belt can be taken off us. Not so an intrinsic trait.
I assume we sleep in the damn thing.

We like that belt.
 
Last edited:
Also, once again, Johann provides more use and we can "punish" him by making him work for us. At least go for all three if you must get Panoramia.
 
So there some analysis somewhere based on some statements somewhere. That's not helpfull.


I disagree with your notion that it would have no negative effect. The avatar is literally the image of a God, so it seems inevitable that we would pick up some Ranaldian traits. Those traits would change who Mathilde is, forcing her to pick up some rather terrible personality traits, and give her some physical properties that woukd otherwise be regarded as a cyrse.

If this isn't a rhetorical thing then let's not get crazy here. We can throw around all sorts of speculation about what the mystery box might do based on various conceptions of metaphysics but none of them are guaranteed to correspond to the Warhammer world.

If y'all want to argue for or against the mystery box, it makes more sense to either draw from precedent in the Fantasy universe (like Karl Franz) or just argue about the opportunity cost of it. Wild speculations as to potential benefits or drawbacks aren't very convincing.
 
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.

[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
[X] Recruit Panoramia
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
One action per turn will be spent keeping in touch with the EIC, allowing you to more directly control it and, if you wish, helping it branch out towards Karak Eight Peaks.
 
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.

[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.

[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
 
This. Getting it for resistance to something extremely unlikely to happen is just a freaking waste.
I mean, no one has any clue if it could help prevent Daemonic possession- but if a trait is relevant against the strongest deities in the setting by a huge margin, then I'm going to assume it's quite possibly relevant against their infinitely weaker and smaller sentient narratives you and I like to call Daemons.
 
I mean, no one has any clue if it could help prevent Daemonic possession- but if a trait is relevant against the strongest deities in the setting by a huge margin, then I'm going to assume it's quite possibly relevant against their infinitely weaker and smaller sentient narratives you and I like to call Daemons.
What are the odds for a trained and talented Magister to end up daemon-possessed? I always believed it was just one roll on the miscast table.
 
Mathilde has gained +1 Martial, +2 Intrigue, +3 Piety. You can also choose new traits or change existing ones. For Changed Traits, the stat bonus is on top of the existing bonus. The two with the most votes will win. You can have two new traits or two replaced traits or one of each.

New Trait:
[ ] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[ ] Scout: Sometimes the best weapon is knowing where everything is. +2 Intrigue, +20 to infiltrating all but the highest-security areas.
[ ] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[ ] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[ ] Polyglot: Your time with the Dwarves has revealed that you have an ear for languages, and learn new languages much faster.
[ ] Marksman: Blackpowder is a wonderful thing. +2 Martial, +10 to attacks with blackpowder weapons.
[ ] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[ ] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.

Changed Traits:
[ ] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
[ ] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
[ ] Blooded > Campaigner: You've seen more than your share of battles. +2 Martial, +10 bonus to fighting alongside others.
[ ] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.
[ ] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
[ ] Practical > Hands On: Wait, you can just get other people to do the paperwork? Why didn't I think of this sooner? +1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -1 Learning, +10 bonus to insights developed 'in the field' (as opposed to careful laboratory study).
[ ] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] All of the traits!

[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X]Except you Sigmar.

There two choices ;)
 
I disagree with your notion that it would have no negative effect. The avatar is literally the image of a God, so it seems inevitable that we would pick up some Ranaldian traits. Those traits would change who Mathilde is, forcing her to pick up some rather terrible personality traits, and give her some physical properties that woukd otherwise be regarded as a cyrse.
"Unlikely", "Believe", "Perhaps". I never claimed that it was impossible to have a negative aspect, I'm asserting that it's unlikely because we have every assurance it will be. Do you have any proof at all that the trait will be negative besides the word 'avatar' being present and the doom-saying that resulted from it? We have a dwarf soul expert who critted in his evaluation of us saying nothing negative happened to us from the event this trait corresponds to. What evidence do you have that it will be negative?

Besides, the trait isn't "be the avatar of a god", it's "have experience being the avatar of a god so that if it happens again, you can do more than be a puppet." If we wanted to channel the power of Ranald, all of that you mentioned? This is the trait that prevents us from being taken over. We don't know what else it does and you are free to pick another trait if you prefer those, but claiming it will be negative when we have every assurance that it wouldn't be and when no other trait listed alongside it is positive is simply doom-saying.
 
Last edited:
Since it seems I fucked up

[X] Plan 2 wizards
[X] Infiltrator:
[X] Scout:
[X] Collegiate:
[X] Magical Duellist:
[X] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar:
[X] Windreader > Windsage:
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.

Also I think if we drew attention of Chaos Gods/at risk of possession of em, we mightt already have bigger problems.
Adhoc vote count started by Travler66 on Oct 4, 2019 at 2:13 AM, finished with 592 posts and 178 votes.
 
A daemon is just a shard of the dark gods, if we are better able to defend against possession by the Chaos Gods than we can scoff at mosr daemonic possession

Dhar is not possession. Also the belt can be taken off us. Not so an intrinsic trait.
That is something thst is not in the quote.

Remember, Boney mentioned it as something that would not happen to most. If it provided resustance to all chais, then that seems like something that would be mentioned.
 
Per the quote @BungieONI quoted above it makes us a less appealing target for posession.
It would make you more able to try to resist being possessed by a Chaos God. Though that's not really a problem that most people will have in their lifetime.
Being used to Godly possession would imply that you're able to do more than just go along with it. That's all you're getting. ??? means the vagueness is deliberate, not 'keep asking'.

I mean not really, going by the literal context of the quotes. The avatar traits provides unknown amount of possession resistance during attempt and allows Weber to more than survive divine power coursing through her vein. It doesn't mention if it makes her stand out to cultists and the like nor discourage using Weber as host for daemon. If I'm a cultists I would target a person that had survived high power specifically for higher chance of them not blowing up during possession attempt.

The question is, does avatar trait makes Weber standout?
 
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top