Voting for Wizards is by plan.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Boney has answered this one.(But I'll double check that using a hybrid thing is fine with @BoneyM since I can't find the post where he says it, beyond the word hybrid being involved)
But basically what I remember is that because we know the Lore of Shadows(Ulgu stuff), if we learn the Lore of Ranald(Ranald divine magic stuff) one of them has to suffer because we have to change mindset from one to the other. Theurgy is using either Divine Lores to affect the Winds, or the reverse using the Winds to affect the Divine Lores. Such a hybrid thing is fine, to my understanding.
- Location
- Brazil
Remember when we took enough energy to blow up a mountain and made a straw out of ulgu that led to Ranald's divine realm?
The idea is to replicate it.
She is supposed to get better at it because she experienced it more often than is reasonable for anyone.
How else do you get better at anything? Practice.
That's called "skill".
She ain't supposed to channel miracles of Ulric or anything of the sort. She gets better at dealing with divine enegy, and that's it. As a side effect, she gets better at resisting godly possession, but that's vanishingly unlikely to come up.
The quoted bit leads me to believe you are leaping a few steps ahead. She is only "channeling multiple deities" in the sense she is getting better at manipulating divine energy in general.
We then hope to create the reverse of Theurgy, instead of using Divine Magic to manipulate the Winds, use the Winds to manipulate Divine Magic. Kind of like necromancy, come to think of it.
A greater understanding of how to handle divine energy seems foundamental to developing it.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
I've updated my vote with opinions on collecting the objectively superior minions and bolstering the adventurers.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
I've updated my vote with opinions on collecting the objectively superior minions and bolstering the adventurers.
You could use a generous sprinkling of 'theoretically' and 'maybe' and 'could' and 'perhaps' in there. But the general idea would not be a waste of time to research further.
- Location
- At the end of the world
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Plan One step after another
-[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[X] Recruit Johann
Traits Collegiate and Collaborator works very nice together, they allow us to delegate actual writing of paperwork and don't waste time on management at that, in other words: we they allow us to get cake and eat it too. Why not recruit Panoramia and Maximilian? Because they are going to be around for a long time, we can recruit them later.
[X] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Plan One step after another
-[X] Recruit Esbern and Seija
-[X] Recruit Johann
Traits Collegiate and Collaborator works very nice together, they allow us to delegate actual writing of paperwork and don't waste time on management at that, in other words: we they allow us to get cake and eat it too. Why not recruit Panoramia and Maximilian? Because they are going to be around for a long time, we can recruit them later.
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
Panoramia is cuter but can do fine on her own, and we need to keep an eye on Johann.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
EDIT: Vote changes.
Panoramia is cuter but can do fine on her own, and we need to keep an eye on Johann.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
EDIT: Vote changes.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh yeah for sure, thanks for answering. (its a pain in the ass to use the search function to find the stuff you've only seen once before)
- Location
- At the end of the world
[X] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
- Location
- Mexico
Mmm, i still don't think the Avatar option is safe at all, but...
This is thing DP was talking about right? the thing we could also learn if we are lucky with the Libram Mortis, some kind of ancient super magic? because synergy for that would be worth it even if we turn into godnip.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Plan all but the ambers.
-[X] Recruit Panoramia
-[X] Recruit Maximilian
-[X] Recruit Johann
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
So the Avatar trait is supposed to help us learn Theurgy so we can use Divine Lores using Ulgu with no backlash? Do we need the trait to learn Theurgy or would it just be harder to learn it without the trait?
Because I can understand taking the trait for such a reason even if its just to make it easier to learn Theurgy.
Still not sure if its worth increased divine attention if we start poking at Gods and their energies without expecting backlash but I can understand how the chance for such a power up could be tempting.
As BoneyM pointed out just before the update:
-Mathilde knows the people involved in running it.
-She has a significant share of it.
-She has destroyed an organization just like it as a Journeyman.
Its our problem to deal with. If it goes bad its our responsibility.
[ ] Take an active hand in the EIC
-Costs an action per turn
-College Favor gain for Economic Benefit to the Empire
-If used to spread agents, potential College Favor gain for actions taken and information gathered through it.
-Potential Dwarf Favor for accelerating the rebuilding of Eight Peaks, or Belegar personal approval if not.
[ ] Leave the EIC alone
-Costs nothing.
-If it goes bad then its on our ass.
-None of the gains though.
[ ] Interfere with the EIC
-Costs several actions
-Likely break the EIC up into smaller, less dangerous and less efficient organizations.
-Against the Grey Order's ideals in spirit. They don't smite the potential to cause harm. They aren't 40k Smite First Ask Questions For What inquisitors. Its currently a Benefit to the Empire.
[ ] Return it with your thanks to the Bright College. +2 College Favour.
College Favor is nice, but we're hardly short of it with the paper returns.
[ ] Try to sell it as you pass through Barak Varr. +??gc
...the heck would we want more gold for?
[ ] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
They'd probably find it very useful if they're to replicate their feat. Adventurers probably don't tend to have a lot of leadership experience, so a little doping in their favor helps them last until they actually have experience leading.
[ ] Donate it to the Winter Wolves of Ulrikadrin.
They...worship a god of winter, distrust magical assistance, and are a high morale group of Knights. They don't need it.
[ ] Keep it around in case you ever want to study non-Ulgu enchantments.
Well its probably worth another paper or two. God knows when we'd ever get around to it though.
[ ] Keep it anyway - you might need to encourage allies at some point.
This seems unlikely.
Mathilde has been excellent priest material for a while now. Heh.
And now for the traits. Hoo boy, so many lovely traits.
To help organize it I'd sort by rarity, then utility.
New Trait:
[ ] Infiltrator: Nobody seems to guard anything well enough to keep you out. +2 Intrigue, +10 bonus to infiltration.
-Rarity: Common. We're a Grey Wizard. Any major arc is likely to have a significant infiltration element.
-Utility: Modest. It lets us do a thing we're already good at doing, with spells supporting it.
Would take this as Head Ranger, not otherwise.
[ ] Scout: Sometimes the best weapon is knowing where everything is. +2 Intrigue, +20 to infiltrating all but the highest-security areas.
-Rarity: Common. We're a Grey Wizard. Any major arc is likely to have a significant infiltration element.
-Utility: Modest. It lets us do a thing we're already good at doing, with spells supporting it. Its more powerful for getting a view of the area than Infiltrator, but less powerful for sabotage and assassinations. So better for Greenskins( who don't tend to HAVE high security zones) than Skaven.
Would take this as Head Ranger, not otherwise.
[ ] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
-Rarity: Uncommon. We don't actually go out intending to assassinate. It just happens. We'd probably see it again, but not without either some luck or unusual risks.
-Utility: When we take a shot at a target of opportunity...they tend to die. +40 would put us into 60% crit chance, which would likely kill anyone not literally impossible to kill in one hit with our weapon.
Would take this as Head Ranger, not otherwise.
[ ] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
-Rarity: Functionally unique. We aren't going to be able to deliberately trigger gaining this. Speak now or forever hold your peace.
-Utility: BoneyM had explained the gist of the ???. Namely, Mathilde actually can try to do something rather than be a helpless sockpuppet when possessed by divine power. This can be helping the God along, deliberately using the right time and place to offer the God a connection, pushing them, or plugging the pipe they stuck in you to Ranald. Opens up the Theurgy path, a stronger divine connection means you could ask Ranald to help with experiments, and we established he's chill and likely to play along as long as we maintain the proper courtesies.
Take it! Take it!!
[ ] Polyglot: Your time with the Dwarves has revealed that you have an ear for languages, and learn new languages much faster.
-Rarity: Rare(we got it by learning Khazalid through osmosis), but can be deliberately triggered by learning another language.
-Utility: I don't think theres that many languages that while we're in the Eight Peaks area, it'd prove useful.
If we were Head Ranger I might consider using Polyglot with Infiltrator to learn Skaven/Goblin languages if they had a distinct one to get intel.
If we were Steward I might consider using Polyglot down the road to engage in Ind diplomacy.
As it is, low priority.
[ ] Marksman: Blackpowder is a wonderful thing. +2 Martial, +10 to attacks with blackpowder weapons.
-Rarity: Common. We use a gun as our main sidearm.
-Utility: Well, shooting better. Guns are neat, we're living with the premium manufacturers of OP guns, so that might be nice. Its not urgent or anything though.
Low priority. Distant maybe as Head Ranger but I reckon the dwarfs have lots of good gunners to learn from if we wanted that.
[ ] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
-Rarity: Rare(but Common for Court Wizard position). As long as we spend a lot of time wrangling wizards this will keep showing up.
-Utility: Very narrow utility for now, but if we wanted to attract more wizards to the Eight Peaks area we'd need this trait and its upgrade if we wanted to be able to do anything other than wrangle them.
[ ] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
-Rarity: Rare->Uncommon. Hard to set it up on purpose...but on battlefields our main role is basically dispelling anyway, and we got a nice big bonus to dispelling greenskin magic so getting this to show up again won't be hard.
-Utility: Being able to sabotage enemy battle magic never hurts, but we don't actually get involved in THAT much magic duels.
Changed Traits:
[ ] Wolf Familiar > Winter Wolf Familiar: Turns out Wolf is a late bloomer. Wolf will grow large enough to ride upon.
-Rarity: Uncommon. I THINK the trigger is just feeding Wolf lots.
-Utility: Given the horrible backlash of getting a familiar killed and Wolf simply not even a quarter as durable as we are with the Belt and Seed, AND Shadow Steed being a better mount in all circumstances...I'm not sure theres any beyond getting more of best pupper and Ulrican respect.
[ ] Brave > Daredevil: Runic protection, magical protection, magical healing... why are people scared of combat again? +2 Martial, immune to fear/terror effects.
-Rarity: Uncommon. Think we need to face and beat terror effects or just demonstrate courage/risktaking to develop this.
-Utility: Never faced a significant terror effect to date. Don't think the local enemy types are big on it either.
[ ] Blooded > Campaigner: You've seen more than your share of battles. +2 Martial, +10 bonus to fighting alongside others.
-Rarity: Uncommon. Could get it from more wars?
-Utility: Consistently useful, but it doesn't stand out a lot. The bonus is very easy to trigger any time we're not infiltrating though.
[ ] Bureaucrat + Practical > Warrior of Paperwork: Scholarship is just a specific form of paperwork. You can live with it. Combines the two traits, +2 Learning, remove penalty to writing papers yourself.
-Rarity: Unless we stop writing papers, this will keep showing up.
-Utility: For now we have Maxmillian as Designated Writing Minion. For now its not useful.
[ ] Practical > Collaborator: Though you still prefer fieldwork to paperwork, you've found that as long as someone else is doing the actual writing, you're capable of producing some amazing papers. +2 Learning, +20 bonus to dictating papers.
-Rarity: As long as we keep writing papers collaboratively we'd see this again.
-Utility: Assuming we retain a write minion we get REALLY good at consistently churning out good papers. Or we could spend some favor on artifacts to help write better.
[ ] Practical > Hands On: Wait, you can just get other people to do the paperwork? Why didn't I think of this sooner? +1 Diplomacy, +1 Stewardship, +1 Martial, +1 Intrigue, -1 Learning, +10 bonus to insights developed 'in the field' (as opposed to careful laboratory study).
-Rarity: Rare. We'd need to get good paper material out in the field again, and its hard to get good observations while fighting for your life.
-Utility: It helps with getting it to happen consistently AND grants a crazy good broad stat bonus. Does merry hell on the proper scientific process though.
[ ] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
-Rarity: Rare. We'd need to get some experience using our Windreader intensively, with other wizards to contrast how THEY see their winds, in a high energy environment.
-Utility: Windreader has consistently been very useful in fluff, despite limited mechanical benefits. Being able to see and understand emotions should also help Mathilde with diplomacy a bit, on top of getting better data off studying magic.
Normally it'd be pretty high up, but with us being Court Wizard? UP, almost all the way.
[ ] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
-Rarity: Uncommon. Its not like Sigmarites are raging assholes. Out on the frontier they're actually useful, and their hate directed at greenskins helps with a lot of woes. We'd see this again probably in a number of guises.
-Utility: We've barely ever encountered the drawback, since we're leading an organization of non-humans, and Wizards. Sigmar is not known to be significantly represented here, and the Wizards who DO follow him are usually of the Light College(which we have college rivalries on top).
Not really important at all.
So my vote:
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Avatar: You're growing worryingly familiar with being used as a conduit by deities. ???
[X] Windreader > Windsage: Your magical senses see more than your normal ones. +2 Learning, even more able to see and understand emotion and magical effects in others.
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
[X] Plan One step after another
[X] Plan Golden Amber
So looking at the vote count...I think recruiting all of them is worth it. We lose 1 personal action over the Recruit 2 plans, and gain 6 actions out of minion actions.
Just think about how much more convenient it'd be to investigate magical curiosities if we have Esbern and Seija patrolling with 4 actions together to find problems.
With an actual wizard seeing the issue we'd have more useful feedback than the dwarf Rangers are likely to give, and the two of them took down a weakened Dragon Ogre, so they can be expected to survive discovering things. Ghur has flight at one of the lower difficulty levels we can expect to find as well, between Raven form and animal informants they can cover more territory than anyone but ourselves.
Then we decide if we or Johann needs to go fix it ourselves with the report. Or both if its big shit.
Esbern and Seija are a major underestimated recruitment option, because for 0.5 actions they come in a pair of double strength actions, almost as good as Johann, and certainly less likely to complain about being dragged away from his studies!
Yes, their spell selection is pretty small at present, but as a Magister employing them we're allowed to sign for them to learn spells as necessary. The action efficiency of managing them pays for itself.
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- Location
- Brazil
You know, framing it as "think of these as most of the actions we'd throw at our current Belebro-given task" makes getting all four really appealing.
Already approval voted for it anyway, but an interesting idea.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
The Avatar trait is a mystery box option, but it's likely to make it easier.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We have no idea, and the Avatar trait leading to +Theurgy route is the thread's own supposition. Its supposition that makes sense based on the facts, but it is what it is.
I certainly have no idea if Avatar will lead to Theurgy. As to if we need it to poke the concept and find out if its possible to do Theurgy? No we don't need Avatar because of Boney's comment here.
Which came up long before this vote existed.
E: Unless he was assuming that this option would exist and that we'd pick it. Which, fair if so, but the way its framed very much does not convey that to me.
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- Location
- Estonia
Or alternatively, it's a mystery box in order to make the trait picks an actual choice, not a no-brainer "Avatar + 1 other trait".
- Location
- Germany
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Collegiate: They say managing Wizards is like herding cats. Herding cats isn't actually that difficult. Can manage three other wizards per action spent.
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Assassin: Combat is easiest when the other person doesn't realize they're in it. +2 Intrigue, +40 bonus against unaware targets.
[X] Disdain for Sigmar > Polytheist: Your bitterness towards Sigmar has softened with time and distance. You're still not thrilled with him, but as long as his followers are coexisting with those of other Gods, you can deal with it. +1 Piety, removes anti-Sigmarite penalty except when dealing with Sigmarite supremacists and monotheists.
[X] Plan 2 wizards
-[x] Recruit Panoramia
-[x] Recruit Maximilian
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
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- Location
- Brazil
Nah, likely the Grandmaster of the Winter Wolves hanging around, and Wolf still being a puppy.
Won't ever show up again, but it's kind of a trap in that it encourages us to take him to battle when he wouldn't be remotely as durable as us, and yet tremendously valuable.
Things that cause Terror are also immune to Terror and Fear, so Dread Aspect has us covered there.
Okay I can understand that. But what exactly is going to stop gods from smiting us for using their Lore without permission. Like I know Ranald should be cool with it since we are a devout worshiper of his and he'd probably love that we figured out such a loop hole to use his Lore and retain our Magic.
But it sounds like people don't want to stick with only Ranald's lore which seems to be the most compatible with Ulgu and us but try and manipulate other Divine Lores as well.
Wouldn't trying to manipulate multiple Divine Lores not cause those Gods to smite us or fuck us up for attempting it?
- Location
- Brazil
Traits exist to gate that sort of research, yeah.
We are unlikely to even be able to poke it without the relevant one.
And honestly, while Mathilde did many awesome things this campaign, the God Heist was just monumental. I absolutely do not want to pass on the chance of getting a trait for it.
@edit: I think it's very clear people are thinking of our bro Ranald when they think of Sorcery.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm decently sure the Skaven's Screaming Bells generate one form of either Fear or Terror. But those are Rare As Heck, and like was noted being able to cause Terror makes Mathilde immune to Terror and Fear.
I'm pretty sure literally nobody said anything about non-Ranald gods except the people saying its a bad idea.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Magical Duellist: Anyone unwise enough to try to cast spells you don't want them to will quickly regret it. +2 Learning, +10 bonus to dispelling and inducing miscasts.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
Plan recruit everyone is my primary. We have a mountainful of trolls for the ambers to study, and I don't want skaven tech being fooled with unsupervised.
[X] Donate it to whoever ends up leading the Undumgi.
[X] Take an active hand in the EIC
[X] Plan recruit everyone!
[X] Plan Fields of Gold
Plan recruit everyone is my primary. We have a mountainful of trolls for the ambers to study, and I don't want skaven tech being fooled with unsupervised.