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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Kornet said:
One last post.


Well for Christianity it actually doesn't. Sainthood is merely recognised after death. It is achived during life.

It's just that the Church doesn't believe it's possible to be sure while the suspected saint is still up and and about and could in theory do something outrageous in the future.

The Orthodox church (that's the one I am sure about. I am 90% sure it's the same with the Catholics) maintains that most saints are actually never recognised and are lost to obscurity, but that doesn't make them any less saint.

I expect that warhammer and is not that different in that aspect.
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I think the point is that the concept is something that is intrinsic in behaviour but extrinsic in terms of actual labelling and status. I don't think there's witch sight that would let you look at a randomly saintly person and be able to go "Aha this person is a saint" just off looking at their soul. Now granted there are people like Vultan but they're more like godly reincarnations.
 
notanautomaton said:
Looking back at this now that it's canon, it looks like Codrin has the witchsight and can thus be recruited for the Colleges. Alternately, he could become a priest and be able to perform actual miracles.
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BoneyM said:
Playing word games with the side stories is only going to result in there no longer being any side stories.

Side story, in the context of this quest, means it depicts events that could have happened. Everything that happens in it is at least broadly compatible with quest canon. But it's not a back door to sneak wizard promotions through.
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For reference, I really wasn't trying to imply anything beyond that the big Mork and Ranald throw down must have charged the air something fierce and that I bet Grungi and co were bemused by this manling force getting ready to go toe to toe with orcs for ancestral Dwarven homelands. Codrin basically got a speech and a new set of superstitions out of it all.
 
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Nix's Warden said:
Honestly I just find this entire arguing really aggravating. Like, if I wasn't already voting for talking about Mork, I'd do it just out of spite from people telling me I shouldn't.

Seriously, people will come to their own decision about things, it might be the 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do, but could people just chill out and let people vote however they want and stop jumping down the other voters throats?
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People are going to debate which option is better, as long they don't get personal and don't go zeroing in on specific people to try and push them to vote the other way I don't this as much more than a matter of course... and please forgive me for this but the 'if it weren't already doing X I'd totally be doing it out of spite for the people pushing against X now' isn't exactly conductive to keeping things from getting that harsh.

In more positive news, two holds on the first expedition, thats a full 1/4th of the Karak reclaimed, considering the size of eight beaks that should hopefully raise Dwarf moral.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
For reference, I really wasn't trying to imply anything beyond that the big Mork and Ranald throw down must have charged the air something fierce and that I bet Grungi and co were bemused by this Nanking force getting ready to go toe to toe with orcs for ancestral Dwarven homelands. Codrin basically got a speech and a new set of superstitions out of it all.
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I kinda figured the speech was bolstered by the runes Kragg was using.
 
BungieONI said:
Not babbling about chaos dwarves at all is probably the best and sanest option because holy shit is that subject Taboo.
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Mathilde doesn't know for certain it's taboo or how taboo it is; she just found out about them through a vision. I think it's a given that she can make a good guess, but I don't think that guess would preclude her from asking Belegar about it in private, which I think we should do. It'd be a good character interaction scene, and I don't want that experience of seeing the origin of the black orcs and their makers be relegated to nothing more than a discreet report to the Grey College.
 
Andres110 said:
Mathilde doesn't know for certain it's taboo or how taboo it is; she just found out about them through a vision. I think it's a given that she can make a good guess, but I don't think that guess would preclude her from asking Belegar about it in private, which I think we should do. It'd be a good character interaction scene, and I don't want that experience of seeing the origin of the black orcs and their makers be relegated to nothing more than a discreet report to the Grey College.
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Hmm as a character interaction piece between two people alone as you say that might be a good point. I'm leery of it because of what I know but hmm if the option came up? *shrug*

Dunno. Might go for it maybe.
 
masterofmadness said:
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.

I just realized I forgot to vote for this option.
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That will have negated your previous vote post, the tally system takes the latest post with a vote.
Copy your choices into this post if you want (though those other two do look pretty set).

TotallyNotEvil said:
actually wounding the Orc Gods
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Zaratustra said:
the only instance I can remenber of someone directly harming gods
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The report isn't that Mork was harmed- that does indeed seem unlikely, considering the nature of Warp entities, relationship with belief, and all that.
It is a vote to state that Mork was weakened- that's a meaningful distinction.
 
Alliterate said:
The report isn't that Mork was harmed- that does indeed seem unlikely, considering the nature of Warp entities, relationship with belief, and all that.
It is a vote to state that Mork was weakened- that's a meaningful distinction.
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I disagree. A god is a giant sentient blob of energy.

Getting a chunk of that energy sucked out is just like a person losing blood.

The differences between "wounding" and "weakening" in this case are largely academic.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
I disagree. A god is a giant sentient blob of energy.

Getting a chunk of that energy sucked out is just like a person losing blood.

The differences between "wounding" and "weakening" in this case are largely academic.
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Perhaps.
But peoples understanding of the meaning of words- and laypeoples understanding of the nature of Warhammer gods- isn't academic here.
'Weakened' will be interpreted differently than 'wounded' and I think that is a fine and indeed meaningful nuance to how people will treat this information.
 
So, doing a reread of this quest and I noticed this interesting tidbit.

BoneyM said:
In the space below, describe your plans for the next five years (should you reach Magisterial rank).
[*] Seeking adventure in Belegar Ironhammer's reconquest of Karak Eight Peaks.
[*] Seeking adventure in the Zhufbar expeditions into Karak Varn.
(due to how close these two were, there will be a vote to decide between these two)
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Prior to our promotion to Magister, we seemed to vote for helping either Belegar Ironhammer or Zhufbar for the next five years. That may, of course, have changed and we certainly have been successful enough to head out early if we want to. I just know that there were some people who believed that the expedition would last for five years, and this might be where that idea came from.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] Other (write in)
Karak Eight Peaks has yet to be claimed in full, but your off to a good start. However every piece of ground aids your enemies as much as it does you. With every battle more Men, dwarfs and Halflings die. With every hold taken your forces are spread thinner and thinner. See what Belegar wants to do.

By Grimnir, Grungni and Valaya this quest is going quick.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
I disagree. A god is a giant sentient blob of energy.

Getting a chunk of that energy sucked out is just like a person losing blood.

The differences between "wounding" and "weakening" in this case are largely academic.
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It really isn't. If he is "weakened", he can recover in short order. In generic game terms, he got mana drained, but he didn't lose maximum capacity. He can sleep it off. If he got "wounded" he actually lost something that at least takes a long time to heal.
Thor's Twin said:
So, doing a reread of this quest and I noticed this interesting tidbit.


Prior to our promotion to Magister, we seemed to vote for helping either Belegar Ironhammer or Zhufbar for the next five years. That may, of course, have changed and we certainly have been successful enough to head out early if we want to. I just know that there were some people who believed that the expedition would last for five years, and this might be where that idea came from.
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Y'know, we should totally go over to Zhufbar and see if we can help them out, since this got wrapped up so much more quickly than expected.
 
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[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility

Missed the other two votes.

Thor's Twin said:
So, doing a reread of this quest and I noticed this interesting tidbit.


Prior to our promotion to Magister, we seemed to vote for helping either Belegar Ironhammer or Zhufbar for the next five years. That may, of course, have changed and we certainly have been successful enough to head out early if we want to. I just know that there were some people who believed that the expedition would last for five years, and this might be where that idea came from.
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I'd certainly like to stay here for the allotted time. Helping the dwarfs here has been pretty fun and interesting, and is bound to grow even more so as we transform into a sort of intrigue advisor to King Belegar and his budding tenure in Karak Eight Peaks, which is bound to carry all sort of hijinks both zany and serious. There is a lot to learn from the dwarfs, a lot to kill and loot from the Orcs and Skaven, a vacation/bolt hole/magic tower to build atop some Karak, and lots of interesting character interactions waiting around as we become a familiar face in the Peaks. Returning to Stirland sounds pretty boring IMO compared to that, especially since it's already explored territory in a way. Out here we're out in the frontier, staking ground with an intersting civ/race that is very different to what Mathilde is used to, and making a huge difference for the forces of Order.

Besides, researching stuff under a breathtaking view of the mountain valley sounds nicer than doing the same inside the Sunken Palace.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

Thor's Twin said:
Prior to our promotion to Magister, we seemed to vote for helping either Belegar Ironhammer or Zhufbar for the next five years. That may, of course, have changed and we certainly have been successful enough to head out early if we want to. I just know that there were some people who believed that the expedition would last for five years, and this might be where that idea came from.
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Mathilde came seeking "something to seek". Our offering of service to Belegar is not necessarily intertwined with the Expedition proper. If nothing else, the Dwarves will respect an announcement that we do not consider our service here ended until Belegar releases us from it and offer him first refusal of a sort.
 
I'm bored of this argument. I am now unilaterally demanding a new topic:

It looks like we're going to aim for taking the Citadel, but then the Expedition will end after that. That means the dwarves are going to dig in, pay their human pals what they're owed, and wait for reinforcements before trying to push in further. So what will our move be? We can scout the Eight Peaks, we can write a memoir, we can run back to the College to report, we can return to the Empire with the knight orders, we can carry messages to the various Karaks, we can stay to advise Belegar, we can move on to our next adventure, whatever that may be... tons of options.

But it sounds like there will be some time before anything else momentous happens in Eight Peaks, for us to get something done. Maybe a six-month turn or two? I'm kind of inclined to stick around for a bit, or run messages, although I do want to return to Stirland eventually.
 
Guile said:
I'm bored of this argument. I am now unilaterally demanding a new topic:

It looks like we're going to aim for taking the Citadel, but then the Expedition will end after that. That means the dwarves are going to dig in, pay their human pals what they're owed, and wait for reinforcements before trying to push in further. So what will our move be? We can scout the Eight Peaks, we can write a memoir, we can run back to the College to report, we can return to the Empire with the knight orders, we can carry messages to the various Karaks, we can stay to advise Belegar, we can move on to our next adventure, whatever that may be... tons of options.

But it sounds like there will be some time before anything else momentous happens in Eight Peaks, for us to get something done. Maybe a six-month turn or two? I'm kind of inclined to stick around for a bit, or run messages, although I do want to return to Stirland eventually.
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I'd like to spend a few extended turns acting as an "Intrigue Advisor" of sorts during the consolidation phase of the expedition.

We should spend some actions heading back to the Empire of course, to go pick up our snake-juice and generally spread the word about how the expedition is going - file some reports with the Grey Order and maybe get some more wizard backup.

Other than that, we can go around scouting and destabilizing enemies around the place, pick out a spot for our arcane lab, set up another shrine to Ranald, finally get some research done...
 
It would be really fun to write a memoir and some reports of the first stage of the reclaimation of K8P. We could really play up our two aspects of writing. On one hand we are able to write exciting and gripping stories as shown with how well the stories about the dragon lord sold. On the other hand our official academic writing is dry like dust.

I also really like books. So lets write books.
 
247 votes have been cast so far this round. We have just managed to pass the previous record of 241, back when we voted for our response to the collapse of the Only Gork Ritual. Congratulations are in order, @BoneyM . You managed to break the record of a recent quest defining vote within two updates.

I suspect the very tight margins and the unknown long term consequences of this vote is driving up the vote count.

Guile said:
But it sounds like there will be some time before anything else momentous happens in Eight Peaks, for us to get something done. Maybe a six-month turn or two?
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If it's put up to a vote, I'd hope for two-month turns, because it allows for the busy months after Eight Peak to be more finely grained.

I do think the first thing we have to do is to report ASAP to Regimand, and possibly Algard about the intelligence we gathered in Karak Eight Peaks and put in a subtle request for training in spells that might help in fighting the Skaven from the shadows, such as scent modifications. Our second priority, I feel is to tour the Karags and Electoral Counts to marshal a new wave of support for Belegar. The third priority would be to get our eyewitness chronicle/account of the expedition out there across the Empire, Karaz Ankor and Britannia for PR Purposes, and so as to be able to influence the histories of the expedition in favor of both Clan Angrund and the Colleges of Magic.

To be honest, I think we should start working on drafting the outlines of the Reclamation of the Eight Peaks. I hope to see this as a possible downtime option towards the final stages of the Karak Eight Peaks expedition. And I agree we should write it as a narrative, adventure prose rather than a dry report. There are so many stirring moments in this expedition that would grip the imaginations of the reading public in the Empire. Let's hope we don't trigger a second round of Wizard chic though.

Then, and only then, we can decide whether to return to Eight Peaks to continue the campaign, seek a position as an adviser to Belegar, return to Stirland, venture into Middenland, join the Nuln Engineering School, sign up with the Witch Hunters, take an apprentice, teach in the College, or whatever other options the GM lays out in front of us.
 
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I'd like to spend a few turns catching up on old stuff. At the very least we should
-Fill out our spellbook
-Write up the MAP
-Finish Greatsword training
-Look at snake juice
-read the book

Because that stuff has been waiting for ages. Some further things would be:
-Getting a sharpshooter rifle and training
-polish up enchanting more
-consider learning to do ritual casting better
 
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