- Location
- United States of America
That's perfectly fine with me. I appreciated the analysis of the first post, and anything adding to it will likely be just as helpful.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I think that you severely overstimate the amount of knowledge and understanding human academia, or anyone for that matter, has of catastrophic failures involving any divine energies, and unpredictable Mork energies especially.
I'm pretty much sure that for anybody but Grey College the reaction would be "huh that happened", and for Grey College it would be "huh that probably happened but let's double check if we find a way to double check".
The thing is we should tell the Grey Council everything, including Ranald's part and for a very good reason, that was an example of a god fixing what would otherwise have been a dangerous explosion of magical energies. And you know what else is in that category? Miscasts.
The grey Council's first thought will not be: 'she is going to be corrupted by orcs' which is an unheard of concept, it will be 'hm, ameliorating miscasts, worth looking into, worth looking into a lot'.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
"There was a ritual calling on one of the Ork Gods that I muscled in on and disrupted in a rather spectacular fashion, I imagine they were rather unhappy about that, judging by the subsequent berserk frenzy"
@BoneyM , which of the two options currently under debate would that qualify as? Since that seems the limit of what can be safely explained without raising unpleasant questions.
@BoneyM , which of the two options currently under debate would that qualify as? Since that seems the limit of what can be safely explained without raising unpleasant questions.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
-[X] She will also volunteer for dish cleaning duty.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
-[X] She will also volunteer for dish cleaning duty.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
You've got a faulty premise there. We can certainly say that the energies blew back in a fashion that might have injured Mork, and it'll just be filed under "Wizard shit, do not enquire further" by everyone present.
- Location
- not actually Urk, I just liked the alliteration
[edit][X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
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- Location
- Internet
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
I'm suggesting that the rolls collapse the quantum superposition of previously undetermined possibilities, so the first, not the second. To dumb down the consequences a bit, if the possibility collapses in a good way then relevant rolls in subsequent updates might get bonuses to make it more likely there's some rough consistency of performance over time, or if in a bad way they'd get penalties. That makes the quest more consistent over, reducing the immersion damaging swinginess that basing things on the rolls of a d100 can produce. Of course, that doesn't preclude the second option if the waveform has already collapsed and we just don't know it...
The probability collapse would also has narrative consequences. Previously, for example, how far Codrin would go to get the mercenaries killed may have been undetermined, but the result of the rolls is that he's prepared to leaving them hanging with minimal archery support in the face of a charging horde of orcs. If, by contrast the archers had rolled high as well it might have collapsed in such a way that he'd take absolutely no risk to the expedition and would support them competently in the face of the enemies of humanity.
I'm not saying that's what happened by the way. Perhaps instead it'll be explained by Maximillian having a minor miscast that although it didn't cause long term damage disrupted the archers enough that they didn't perform well, and he's lost another set of friends and will need Mathilde to resolve the situation. Or something else.
Definitely in favor of going and getting an education in engineering. Our ability to use Ulgu is directly connected to how we think about things. Learning new stuff and ways of thinking would have a direct effect on what kinds of thoughts we'd be able to have about Ulgu, thereby widening our ability to use it. Learning engineering and getting some degree of pyrotechnic knowledge out of it would be quite helpful for making our own smoke grenades, as well as for potentially enchanting our own firearms in future. Having an understanding of how they actually work would almost certainly improve our ability to work with them magically. That extra knowledge and utility, mixed with the connections being made to those already there, as well as our own Niter factory could be really helpful for us. I'd definitely be incredibly interested in what happens when you mix gunpowder with snake-juice and enchanted bullets/guns.
Would like to learn other languages if possible too, for similar reasons. More ways of thinking of the world, and of the winds means more ways of using Ulgu.
Would like to learn other languages if possible too, for similar reasons. More ways of thinking of the world, and of the winds means more ways of using Ulgu.
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JaceAoT
The Architect
- Location
- The Netherlands
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] She disobeyed a superior Wizard and her commanding officer. Lecture her harshly but inflict no punishment.
Not her friend, though that might become as such, for now we are her commanding officer and she did not obey our orders.
[X] She disobeyed a superior Wizard and her commanding officer. Lecture her harshly but inflict no punishment.
Not her friend, though that might become as such, for now we are her commanding officer and she did not obey our orders.
Stranger1950
Worth It
- Location
- Reverse Side of the World
Considering that mentioning Mork current state is going to win, I can see several things happening from it. The good thing from this is that our allies will know what happen and some would be happy to see that their long time enemy patron god is weakened. Aside from that, people like Kragg might be able to concoct something that can capitalize from this situation. Also, having an explanation of what actually happened will ease up some of our allies fear since explaining this will more or less state that the citadel attack was more of a one time thing than something that could always happen at anytime.
The bad part about this is that Mathilde will get a reputation hit and that her standing in the council will be negatively impacted. It was fortunate that the expedition got someone like Kragg or else the casualty could have been higher. Furthermore, while it is impressive that Mathilde was able to weaken Mork, the council will ask her how she actually did it in the first place. Sure, with Ranald coin, we can easily lie about it and just say that it was a side effect from killing the prophet (which was technically true in a way). But nonetheless, at best, our allies will be more critical of our action in the future and we need to thread more carefully. The worst case scenario is that our allies will no longer trust us and this will either burn our bridges or limit our action in the expedition. Finally, it is entirely possible that Kragg will interrogate us over this since he noticed what actually happened and the last thing anyone wants is having the full attention of Kragg the Grim. Hopefully, this won't impact much aside from Kragg calling us something worse than Shadow Disappointment.
The bad part about this is that Mathilde will get a reputation hit and that her standing in the council will be negatively impacted. It was fortunate that the expedition got someone like Kragg or else the casualty could have been higher. Furthermore, while it is impressive that Mathilde was able to weaken Mork, the council will ask her how she actually did it in the first place. Sure, with Ranald coin, we can easily lie about it and just say that it was a side effect from killing the prophet (which was technically true in a way). But nonetheless, at best, our allies will be more critical of our action in the future and we need to thread more carefully. The worst case scenario is that our allies will no longer trust us and this will either burn our bridges or limit our action in the expedition. Finally, it is entirely possible that Kragg will interrogate us over this since he noticed what actually happened and the last thing anyone wants is having the full attention of Kragg the Grim. Hopefully, this won't impact much aside from Kragg calling us something worse than Shadow Disappointment.
While that's something that could be useful down the line, I think that Skaven and Greenskin Lore would be exceptionally useful. Mathilde's also surrounded by experts on those subjects, and it's likely to be something that the dwarves would share freely. We can also cheat terribly when it comes to learning by getting Johann and Maximillian's help while they're under Mathilde's command, and it would legitimately help the Expedition for her to quickly learn. Mundane chemistry and explosive making is something that could well come in handy for enchanting, but seems like something the dwarves would be much less likely to teach, particularly if we wanted the Gold Wizards there.
Something else that might be useful is learning about the broader world from the adventurers. See if any of them have been to Ulthuan, or Cathay, or Lustria, or Ind. Particularly for a Grey Wizard, a little piece of knowledge at the right time might help solve a puzzle or give a different perspective. Particularly if there are any expatriates from those places where we can get a natives' view, rather than an outsiders'. This is also something she might be able to do is she stops off at Barak Varr for a turn at some point.
Why on earth would hurting the enemies' patron god give Mathilde a reputation hit? Do you think they would prefer the results of whatever massive ritual the orcs were cooking up if it had gone off? This should increase their trust in her, as she just saved their asses by 'luckily' being in the right place at the right time to derail it. The results of the orcs sudden, disorganised attack was also pretty great for the Expedition. They'd have had to kill those greenskins at some point, and thanks to Mathilde they put themselves exactly where the Expedition needed them to be at a time when they had prepared firing lines. It's much better than having to storm Grobi-town or the Citadel with the enemy at full strength and fully organised by black orcs. Beyond that, how many people in the Warhammer world can legitimately say they've taken a swing at an evil god and made it count? This sounds like a legendary feat that the dwarves would laud her for, not criticise.
The Council won't ask how she did it, because the humans know better than to ask a Grey Magister about the details of their magic and prying into someone else's trade secrets is something no self-respecting dwarf would ever do.
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We can't use the coin yet.
Also I'm not sure why we'd lose reputation here. Saying we blew up an Ork ritual and the blowback seems to have hurt Mork and caused him to be pissed off enough that he actually punched his own guys shouldn't make anyone distrust Mathilde.
avatar11792
Et Sic Incipit
- Location
- Planet Earth, North America
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
- Location
- Trapped in the Warp
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I honestly don´t think saying the ritual blew Morks energies back some bit is that much of an issue as the debate surrounding it for like, past five pages makes it out to be? Honestly, Miscasts happen, especially when someone introduces violent catastrophic failure into equation. Noone in expedition is gonna question it except maybe Kragg and i kind of doubt he will care all that much. And Colleges of Magic, if they will end up caring at all, are worry for later.
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- Location
- Internet, The
1) Was anything I wrote obviously wrong? It seemed like a reasonable interpretation to me, and I certainly doubt the others are experts of Ranaldian lore, or feel like expounding on it too much in front of dwarfs
2) Honestly, the saying "less is more" should apply here. Mathilde sent the energy of the god of cunning to the most appropriate god with the highest chance of their portfolio applying.
3) Mathilde might even say she does not hold with veneration much, but this seemed like the most appropriate god. No need to tell them she is personally a follower, but no need to avoid it.
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- Location
- Washington State
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
Telling about the Warboss and the Idol. If you don't say anything it will most likely be assumed that your disrupting the Idol caused the reaction.
That's pretty good, actually if the empowerment have permanent effect, Mathilde could be their patron, backing them with all the resources an adventurer need and limited protection from the authorities in exchange for future favours from their adventures.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Anyway, on the topic of Panoramix.
What lesson do we want to teach her?
Sure, we can put the fear of authority in her, but is that useful? We don't really have a very hands on commanding style, and wizards are rarely encased in a strict military structure.
As wizard, she must learn to be sensiblish. So, that's why reminding her of miscast is best. She needs to make the safe decision herself, not because we told her so.
What lesson do we want to teach her?
Sure, we can put the fear of authority in her, but is that useful? We don't really have a very hands on commanding style, and wizards are rarely encased in a strict military structure.
As wizard, she must learn to be sensiblish. So, that's why reminding her of miscast is best. She needs to make the safe decision herself, not because we told her so.
- Location
- Singapore
The only problem here is that our revenue stream isn't that good still to support that level of financial backing. If our lands were richer and we didn't nearly crit fail our resource prospecting rolls for our lands, that's another matter altogether. Money, I think is going to be a significant limiting factor in this campaign, and we haven't snowballed to the point where we can afford to back an entire mercenary band easily on our finances alone.
Do we need to choose the option to talk about Mork, to explain to the Council that we disrupted a dangerous Greenskin ritual? Also, how long will the vote be open for?
P.s: To those who think we might get a chance to tell Belegar and Kragg privately what just happened, there are several problems:
1. Such an interaction is likely not to be a free action since we didn't make any arrangements to make private reports for King Belegar's ears only unlike with Abel.
2. Even if such an interaction was available, there is no guarantee that the thread would vote for this interaction, especially if it comes at the expense of other possible actions.
3. There's a chance Belegar might be curious why we didn't reveal the full details of what happened when our fellow humans were in the room.
4. As already explained, hurting Mork has strategic implications for the Order gods, that we may not be privy to. Getting this particular bit of intelligence into the hands of Ulric and Myrmidia followers may well aid the forces of Order in a way Mathilde is not necessarily privy to.
5. We eventually have to report something to the Grey Order anyway.
6. While we don't know whether anyone in the expedition would notice the aperture Mork pierced into our soul, we can't rule that out either. If we told them we hurt Mork, that solves alot of awkward questions down the line - this is a wound we sustained to hurt Mork. And it means we might be able to find someone to help us close that aperture made in our soul, if need be.
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