Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
It is an important detail, and if the dwarfs don't believe us that's their mistake

[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
We did enough dumb things as a journeyman the resulting hypocrisy might cause a minor explosion. The only reason we ever stopped doing overconfidently dumb things as a journeyman was because we stopped being one.

[X] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
Attacking the fortress instead of the army is a strategy that works.

Dame Weber's banner is still flying high!

EVA-Saiyajin said:

Because "not believing us" or "ignoring it" could translate to "loss of respect, think we're a braggart, etc".

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Then they are idiots and we don't need their respect.

I might like the dawi, but if they're being dumb then they don't get important intel in the future.

Chronobreak said:

Wait. Others exist besides Van Hal?! I'd like to know!

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If you want male love interests (outside of CKII quests where love interests more or less are piles of stats the thread eventually falls in love with), I can recommend basically any Zerban Quest outside of Fate/Hollow Fake.

I think the Gaya-verse quests also have at least one male interest hidden away somewhere, but I never really got into those so I can't tell.

Chronobreak said:

I myself am a dabbler in shipping. I wish that the thread would have voted to husbando Van Hal, but the past is the past. We must move forward, and look! All these dwarves are men!

I'm partial to Ulthar at the moment, ever since Mathilde out tunnel sensed him and sent him running. Anton would be a cute boyfriend too, and Gustav isn't half bad.

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Look, we don't have to move forward when there's still a path back! BoneyM gave us the means of bringing back the dead right after Abel fell and he said that he had plans for the character! BoneyM isn't a dick, he wouldn't give us those tools if he didn't plan for us to use them. This is basically a divine stamp of QM giving us permission to practise the dark arts!

And as the one rolling the dice he is basically the IRL manifestation of Ranald, meaning we have divine approval both in universe and out. Not practising Necromancy is tantamount to going against Ranald! I am not delusional, you're the ones who're being delusional!

But if we assume, like reasonable people, that Mathilde has to move on from her past love and not keep chasing a Shade, I would like to point out that we just had confirmation that Belegar is unmarried. True, the odds of us actually ending up together with him are lower than post-Sylvania Abelhelm, but low odds shouldn't deter a shipper!

Besides, aren't forbidden loves romantic? It's been a stable of the genre since forever, you know.

EVA-Saiyajin said:

Talk about empowering Ranald to members of a nation that barely tolerates his existence is aggravating, Ulrican or not.

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Eh, many simple folks are rather more understanding of him.

BoneyM said:

[Karag Nar assault: 100.]

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I hit this point and just went "oh nooooooo" ... and then realised that we were the ones assaulting Karag Nar, the greenskins were simply assaulting our assault on Karak Nar. Plain as day.

It is such a bloody pity we are just plain not equipped to take on trolls.

Taking third peak before arrival of further reinforcements would've made Belegar's dorf rep even more legendary.

[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

Omegahugger said:

The only reason we ever stopped doing overconfidently dumb things as a journeyman was because we stopped being one.

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A big difference!
Now we do overconfidently dumb things, but as a Magister!

I would be expecting Kragg the Grim to call us out if we omitted the weakening of Mork and Ranald empowerment since how often do you see a direct effect of a god's power on the battlefield?
There would be questions so its better get it out in the open plus our wizard journeyman would seen or felt the effect.

As for Ulricans, I think knowing that she worship another god would come as a relief since its highly unlikely she's some kind of inquisitor reporting back to the Empire which would open up relations with the Knights more.
Same goes for other human officers since they're not religiously strict, that they end up here fighting with the dwarfs in spite of their normal status plus do you see anyone trying to betray her considering her fame and power not to mention her rep?!

Would be a nice change knowing your wizard is that much of a misfit among the crazy misfits joining this dwarven suicide mission.

veekie said:

Also important context. She didn't charge out into the field against orders seeking glory. We saw ZERO spells from her until the orcs threatened to overrun the halflings.
The halflings Panoramia had spent the past few months befriending?
She was never going to obey the orders to stand back no matter WHAT we tell her.
You see orcs about to stomp your friends dead, and you can with one spell, avert mass casualties, you do it.

What works is reminding of the risk that she explodes into daemons in the midst of the very people she's trying to protect.

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Wasn't she stationed with the Dwarf rangers?

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

Not sure if Mork should be included or not since it raises questions and can't be immediately proven. Killing a Warboss and destroying an idol isn't insignificant.

Trying to grab the Citadel is a no-brainer, since it has to have been significantly weakened.

Prospalz said:

It is such a bloody pity we are just plain not equipped to take on trolls.

Taking third peak before arrival of further reinforcements would've made Belegar's dorf rep even more legendary.

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Considering trolls are dumb they could be slowly and carefully be lured into killing zones. The orcs are the immediate problem.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

Honestly, i am not sure how to adress the bout of insubordination. Will it threaten chain of command? Will one of our decisions threaten the chain of command? I don´t know, i have no handle on perosonalities of our journeymen. Honestly, i think the best option would be to somehow bullshitting her into believing we saw through her and knew she would do something like that which is why she was where she was but eh, i shall leave this to the wiser souls. That said, the arguing about wizard colleges and such should search for themselves the post made by QM on current nature of chain of command that has been made like, dozen times, in just my short time in this thread.


[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.

veekie said:

snipped

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Your quotes seem to have gotten garbled because that isn't my post and I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

You seem to be saying that she had a justification for what she did, but while I didn't lean on it as much as I might have, I did explicitly include the 'there's a time and a place for executive decisions'.

racnor said:

Wasn't she stationed with the Dwarf rangers?

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No. She made more of that black lotus poison for them, then depending on how far into the night it took, she presumably snatched a few hours' sleep before getting up and heading out with the halflings.

Jrin said:

As for Ulricans, I think knowing that she worship another god would come as a relief since its highly unlikely she's some kind of inquisitor reporting back to the Empire which would open up relations with the Knights more.

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To be honest, the Ulricans strongly dislike Ranald worshipers, so I don't think the argument here works. Furthermore, what we did with the WAAGHH energies skirts dangerously close to violating Article 7, at least in the eyes of Zealots that aren't Ranaldian. At least, I won't be surprised if the QM forces us to do a Dice-roll with a very low Dice Chance in order to avoid an adverse reaction from the human component from the council. It would take alot to convince those who already voted to reveal up to the weakening of Mork to switch their votes, and even then, such a switch in votes means that the second option is much more likely to win. The Mork voters are going for Option 3 as opposed to 4 not because they don't want to be transparent, but because they don't think that talking about Ranald is particularly helpful, nor safe.

In any case, the maximum safest transparency/honesty vote commands a majority, but if this vote is split between Options 3 (Mork) and Option 4 (Ranald), Option 2 (only the Idol) is likely to win, despite the majority of the thread preferring otherwise.

49 for Option 3 (Mork)
19+22=41 for Option 2 (Idol)
13 for Option 4 (Ranald).

This is shaping up to be a very close vote, so I urge the thread to consider their votes carefully here. I would say as an Option 3 voter, we do have very clear evidence that we did something to piss Mork off, and I think Kragg the Grim would almost certainly believe us if we told the Council we gave Mork a bloody nose by screwing over a particularly nasty ritual, that clearly, none of us would want to find out what would happen had it succeeded.

Frankly, even our current gains put us firmly in the category of "Success beyond our wildest dreams". Either destroying our seizing the Citadel would make the Expedition's success go down in legend, as that'll be firmly the level of "We took a quarter of Eight Peaks in a smashmouth offensive and now can consolidate our gains while we gaze upon the rest of the land with revanche in our hearts"

As far as the Old Holds are concerned? What they'd hear from this is.

"We're doing this guys, we're making this happen!"

Words are one thing, deeds are another thing altogether. And when what was thought to be a forlorn hope goes this far...

Pyrelight said:

No. She made more of that black lotus poison for them, then depending on how far into the night it took, she presumably snatched a few hours' sleep before getting up and heading out with the halflings.

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I meant that it was the dwarfs she worked for previously, in regards to Veekie's point about her being friends with the halflings.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] She disobeyed a superior Wizard and her commanding officer. Lecture her harshly but inflict no punishment.

EVA-Saiyajin said:

Mmm, with Karak Azul, holder the best traditional and rune-crafted equipment among the Dwarfholds of the Karaz Ankor, coming...I wonder if Thorek Ironbrow will be coming too, if only because Azul learns how Kragg the Grim is here too.

I wonder how widespread the knowledge of his presence is among the Karaz Ankor?

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I'd forgotten that Thorek Ironbrow was an inhabitant of Karak Azul. Something that's notable about him is that he apparently has notable numbers of apprentices to terrify, so if he comes it might not just be him, but most of his chapter of the guild of runesmiths.

Something else to note about Thorek is that he is described as a strong advocate of reclaiming lost holds, so this is something he's strongly motivated to support. In the canon timeline he came to help Belegar when the Throng of Karak Azul didn't. He also apparently has a history of adventuring, and is experienced at locating sealed or hidden treasuries to recover runelore or runic items from.

Also, watching Thorek and Kragg the Grim be in one place is likely to be hilarious.

BoneyM said:

The stalemate stretches, and another horn sounds on the battlefield and the men under Codrin's command pull back as one, leaving only the dead as the wounded are hauled up and dragged away. The chaos amongst the greenskins only increases as energy coalesces into an almighty force that strikes like the first of an angry god, shattering the earth and crushing dozens of greenskins, and it takes you a moment to realize it's not Kragg: it is the literal fist of an incredibly upset God, and Mork's pummelling of those that are failing him does nothing for their faltering morale. You wonder how Kragg felt to have not disrupted the formation of greenskin magic, and you smile as you see him channel his frustration into bolts of lightning that strike into the thickest parts of the crowd that aren't currently being tended to by the Fist of Mork.

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The fist is a 'first' in text... so typo.

Also, its hilarious to think of Kragg's reaction to getting kill stealed by one of the Ork gods. Like Mork somehow managed to loot a commissar's hat and is wearing it to punish its own cowards, as Kragg is glaring at the kill stealing. I don't think think he really planned for that to happen and it must be annoying him.
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BoneyM said:

With Karag Nar taken and the Citadel's forces greatly weakened, the Expedition might be considered concluded. Do you concur?

[ ] The job is done. Ale and riches for everybody.
[ ] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
[ ] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[ ] Taking Kvinn-Wyr would mean we have every Karag flanking the Eastern Valley.
[ ] Other (write in)

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It'd be stupid to call things off now. Its been like a week of campaign(ignoring the gates and I'm vague on those right now) and a lot of marching. At this point, its a matter of a holding action (till the next wave of dwarves arrives to reinforce and swap out.) with scouting opportunities. Its not like paying the mercs is an issue with MC's dragon bed untouched and secured. Taking another peak at this time means less fortification on the territory already held. Its going to take a few weeks to fortify properly as is.

So that means dealing with the Citadel is the order of the day. Bombarding it to oblivion is always an option. However, its best to scout the thing first. There could easily be random treaures to loot in intact vaults. It could be mostly empty after last night. It is however a bit on lava right now so that needs a bit of time to cool of before occupying it. Provided it hasn't manage to drain everything behind into it and then it can still be leveled. Pretty much the only real option is scout it next.

BoneyM said:

[ ] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.

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This is the only real option... its possible she did actually sleep off the all nighter and all the *BOOM* and screaming woke her up. This is a couple hours later and she was only seen doing something at the very end when the battle got closest to the fortress. She could have been there patching people up without magic and just entangled them when they got to close. Realistically, mentioning you managed to see she did that at all is a good way to point out her actions were noticed... without being overbearing about it. Plus pointing out she was on nap duty to avoid her exploding due to being too tired. Learning you were worried about her pacing herself as the key issue helps.

So the last issue is:

BoneyM said:

When you finally wake, the immediate post-battle concerns will have been dealt with and there'll be a Meeting of War. How much will you report?

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Reporting the Warboss got sneaked attacked to death and oneshotted is mandatory... and I think they'd have real questions about why MC failed to mention the idol. Like why would you not mention it? Did you think you could yoink it if you didn't mention it? Its kind of right there... and huge.

As for Mork and Ranald? Well this is the basically public and official debriefing. Annoucing Ranald was involved in that is being a moron with no benifit. Like fail at keeping secrets and get stuck in endless meetings for weeks level stupid. Reporting on Ranalld's involvement is asking for giant piles of avoidable paperwork and endless meetings. Plus makes it so Ranald has less options for spending his gains. So option 4 is option stupid massicism. MC is a Gray Wizard and not a flagellant.

The Mork thing is then up for discussion... and its best to avoid declaring that in public. Save it for the personal actions.

So:
[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

racnor said:

Wasn't she stationed with the Dwarf rangers?

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She's working with the dwarf rangers on our orders, but she's been talking to the halflings about growing drugs and stuff on her own initiative

Prospalz said:

It is such a bloody pity we are just plain not equipped to take on trolls.

Taking third peak before arrival of further reinforcements would've made Belegar's dorf rep even more legendary.

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The Citadel is more strategically important I think. Its stupidly defensible in dwarf hands, if only the orcs would volunteer to come out and die in the open field....which they just did, yay.

pucflek said:

Honestly, i am not sure how to adress the bout of insubordination. Will it threaten chain of command? Will one of our decisions threaten the chain of command? I don´t know, i have no handle on perosonalities of our journeymen. Honestly, i think the best option would be to somehow bullshitting her into believing we saw through her and knew she would do something like that which is why she was where she was but eh, i shall leave this to the wiser souls. That said, the arguing about wizard colleges and such should search for themselves the post made by QM on current nature of chain of command that has been made like, dozen times, in just my short time in this thread.

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Panoramia's personality traits we know of is that she idolizes Mathilde's reputation for saving the day on the battlefield.

Necratoid said:

The Mork thing is then up for discussion... and its best to avoid declaring that in public. Save it for the personal actions.

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The Mork thing is strategically important information because knowing that the Greenskins engaged in self destruction due to internal heresy issues, rather than being riled up by something else is important information, because in the absence of that information they have to guess Skaven intervention or some other unknown. They need it for planning at the war council, they need to know just how likely the Citadel emptied out because of Greenskin mutual murdering, and they need to know if the heresy can be exploited further against the greenskins.

More to the point, OOC wise we know Kragg knows something magical went down on a scale beyond an individual mortal's channeling and that he suspects we were at ground zero.
If we tell the story here we have control of the narrative, otherwise it might come out in a less pleasant manner.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] She disobeyed a superior Wizard and her commanding officer. Lecture her harshly but inflict no punishment.