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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Okay. One last thought.

Why are so many people afraid of mentioning Mork's weakness?

That's pretty pertinent intel!

And if they don't believe us?

Well, to paraphrase a story from NotAlwaysRight,
"If the Dwarves take (part of) our report and ignore it, that's called a Decision and they move on.
"If Mathilde doesn't report something (they might want/need to know, that's called 'not doing her job' and could get her fired".
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.

They can see that something was going on with the greenskins: Fists of Mork attacking their own leadership in the middle of combat is unusual, to say the least.

[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
 
vsh said:
Expedition forces are almost intact, from the looks of it: we can take two or three more battles. Taking just Citadel is fine and dandy but look at the Underway map: if take it and want to underconnect all of our holdings we need to occupy Sentinels and Kwynn Wyr or occupy Karagril - former with a bonus of overseeing East valley, latter with a bonus of overseeing Death Pass and crossfire on the caldera.
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Remember we can supply it from overland because with it we will own the east valley.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

I do believe Mathilde is smart enough to not go "Hey guys I just stole half of his power from Mork lol", and I don't really care about the Ranald part in this vote. Telling the dwarves "this is why the orks were mad" seems like a good thing.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

We should keep quiet about Ranald. Being honest about the God of Thieves is not the best option (though it might amuse and annoy Ranald). Also, Mork seems to be very angry, which made sense considering what we just did to him. As for Panoramia, it went well this time, but we should still scold her since it is still a mistake to cast spells when you are tired. Finally, like what some people said, the Citadel would normally be hard to conquer and this is the best possible moment to take over it. We might not get a chance like this for a long while if we don't capitalize it now.
 
buli-buli said:
Okay. One last thought.

Why are so many people afraid of mentioning Mork's weakness?

That's pretty pertinent intel!

And if they don't believe us?

Well, to paraphrase a story from NotAlwaysRight,
"If the Dwarves take (part of) our report and ignore it out, that's called a Decision and they move on.
"If Mathilde doesn't report something, that's called 'not doing her job' and could get her fired".
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Because "not believing us" or "ignoring it" could translate to "loss of respect, think we're a braggart, etc". Not to mention not giving the specific reason about how a god lost energy when a supreme master of arcane knowledge is gonna be in the room.
 
Mopman43 said:
The Citadel is probably the best defensive spot in the 8 Peaks. Belegar held for years with just 500 Dwarfs in there. If we can take it, that's a hell of a thing to have on our side.
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Not really, since we'd still have like three other less defensible areas to protect also. Better to shove the orks out of the area entirely than to spend a bunch of lives on taking one particularly defensible peak.
 
vsh said:
We need casualties assessment for a proper decision but it looks like the only forces to take any casualties at all are rangers, human mercenaries, and the knights. Even after subtracting Karag Nar's garrison we still have a lot of military power to throw around.
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I meant in regards to getting respect and awe from our peers, aka mentioning the god-weakening.
 
The Citadel is in a really dominating position, tho, both to absolutely secure East Valley, and to break the Caldera's offensives upon.

As is, they get to charge us, while we could make them charge at our walls.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
Orcs can't teleport, if they want to hit our other territories and we hold the citadel, they have to do it under counterbattery fire from the Citadel
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] Write-in: Leave her a note someplace conspicuous (to her) to either obey her commanding officer or hide her involvement better. This half-hearted middle-ground is a bad mix. You'll lecture her later, when it's more convenient.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility
 
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork and strengthening of Ranald.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
[X] The death of the Warboss and the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
[X] She disobeyed a superior Wizard and her commanding officer. Lecture her harshly but inflict no punishment.
 
@BoneyM I assume that if enough of the other commanders agree, that the "take the Citadel" option is one that is going to be explored, not leaped into? Do what scouting we can and such, with caveats to turn back while we still can if it seems unfeasible or non-viable?
 
[X] The death of the Warboss, the shattering of an Almost-Rogue Idol, and the weakening of Mork.
[X] You'd have done the same once. Tell her you understand, but treat her to a lecture on the risks and dangers of miscasts.
[X] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.

I have no doubt that Kragg knows we did something to piss Mork off, given the First of Mork just made an appearance on the battlefield against the routing Greenskins. I'd say that there's no use concealing from the Dwarves that we pissed Mork off and possibly gave him a metaphorical bloody nose, given that Kragg already knows we did something. Best to be upfront about what we did to Mork, lest we run the risk of Kragg calling us out on it. Telling them that we diverted the power to Ranald is probably a detail the Dwarven leadership doesn't need to know, nor would they be able to infer, and there are humans in the council who would likely see what we did as heresy.

As for Panoramia, I think that a light touch is better with Panoramia, especially since we strictly speaking don't have authority over her. I'd rather not burn my bridges with a potential future friend in the Jade College.

And yes, if 500 Dwarves can hold the Citadel in canon for years, I dare say taking the Citadel while it's weakened this badly shouldn't strain our garrisons that much, compared to the other options. It's an invaluable strategic point to hold for relatively low manpower investment to keep occupied.
 
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A few thoughts on the Expedition's time of conclusion...
[ ] The job is done. Ale and riches for everybody.
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This is insanely optimistic. The Karak doesn't have a reliable source of food, though planting of mushrooms is doubtless underway. It still doesn't have secure lines back to Barak Varr or to Karak Azul, though both are underway. It doesn't have a secure East Valley, as that's still under the eyes of greenskins. It still has no idea what dwells within and beneath a full half of the Karak's peaks. Declaring victory now is doing so from a position of weakness and ignorance on the blithely optimistic expectation that everything will continue to go well.
[ ] The Citadel should be destroyed before we can consider our position secure.
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This is the absolute minimum we can consider.
[ ] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
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A far better choice; considering the mass of greenskin casualties and the tactical dominance of the Citadel over the Caldera. Letting the Expedition bleed a bit to storm the fortress now is likely to save far more blood over the coming years.
[ ] Taking Kvinn-Wyr would mean we have every Karag flanking the Eastern Valley.
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This is true but I see no reason that we'd take Kvinn-Wyr over the Citadel when we know that it's full of trolls, who are unlikely to cause trouble on their own- they're more of an environmental hazard.
[ ] Other (write in)
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This... seems like what we need to do, if we're actually arguing for when the Expedition should end. Taking the Citadel will be nice, and it's important, but the Expedition has moved very quickly. We have been visible to the greenskins and skaven here for what, a week at most? It could easily be taking that long for one of the major threats around there to be beating everyone else into line and gathering their forces.

We can't really leave until we have secured all the necessities needed to live here and a route back home- not merely planned on how to secure them, but actually secured them- and thoroughly scouted our enemies, then eliminated any serious possibility of attack in the immediate future.

I'm very concerned that if we declare victory and thirty thousand humans go home, we'll be putting the people settling here in a position of slow, grinding attrition against the skaven and greenskins who live here. They'll do well, but they'll lose a dwarf or three at a time even though their enemies lose far more, and we know how that story goes. It's how Karaks die and get abandoned. We need to leave them not merely secure, but in a position of decisive superiority over all other forces in the Karak, such that even if they don't have enough population to actually live in the entire place they can at least be sure that they aren't being outbred and losing a war of attrition to enemies living in their own home.

I'm not sure how to express this sentiment in a short, punchy vote, though. For now I'll just go with this one.

[x] The residents are weakened, taking the Citadel is now a possibility.
 
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