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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Artemis1992 said:
That's pretty hard.
A high-level vamp can't be controlled by most methods I know of.
Far too much turn-resistance plus HD for the classic Command Undead and with a powerful caster with dispel and good willsaves like her I wouldn't rely on any spellwork.

Will we get a mechanical explanation how that works?
Ability to keep powerful, turn-resistant undead under control might come useful.

Edit: And if Haren is the bigger fish we'll also need to find out why he didn't take control or expand further.
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It has to do with the curse of Harenhall and the bargains Danelle Lothston made in life. She never would have been able to even become a vampire in an age of low magic if it had not been for Haren, his reserves of magic and connection to the Shadow Plane.
 
Well hell, that was some insane dice.

Vampire: "Hahaha, you cannot hurt me weakling! I am darkness, I am the night! I AM-"

Thoros: "You are ash!"

Thoros one shots high level vamp

Old Flame head sits in divine plane feeling smug.
 
[X] Meet with Stannis Baratheon. With the bargain you've struck with Storm God, he may yet play a part larger than being but a mere Lord...
 
lockingbane said:
Well hell, that was some insane dice.

Vampire: "Hahaha, you cannot hurt me weakling! I am darkness, I am the night! I AM-"

Thoros: "You are ash!"

Thoros one shots high level vamp

Old Flame head sits in divine plane feeling smug.
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Burny: "Ya'll see that?"

Drowned God: "For the fifth fucking time, yeah, we saw it!"

Burny: "I'm just saying, that's my guy right there. He totally smote that leech. Like a champion. Of me!"

Moonsinger: "This is all that Targaryen boy's fault, I just know it."

Burny: "He was all like 'Rargh! Eat the holy flame of my God, bitch' <insert lightsaber whooshing sounds> and she was like 'No!'."

Yss: "zzzz" <snores contentedly>
 
OOC: Well that was a lot shorter than I expected. Lady Lothston was a level 16 vampire magus with quickened Dominate Person. I was expecting Mell to have to pop in and save them, and then Thoros crit on his Righteous Fury enhanced charging smite for a total multiplicative value of x4 which put his total damage at 172. Thoros is leveling from this no question about it.
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Another multiple on top of x2 should be x3, IIRC, unless he was using a /x3 weapon?
 
Elorie said:
Another multiple on top of x2 should be x3, IIRC, unless he was using a /x3 weapon?
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I don't think so, the spell just says it doubles the damage and so does critting.

Whether it's multiplicative or additive 2+2 is 4 and 2*2 is still 4. I suppose one could say righteous fury does not multiply crit damage at all but I do not see any indication of that in the spell text.
 
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DragonParadox said:
I don't think so, the spell just says it doubles the damage and so does critting.

Whether it's multiplicative or additive 2+2 is 4 and 2*2 is still 4. I suppose one could say righteous fury does not multiply crit damage at all but I do not see any indication of that in the spell text.
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Found it:

The Basics :: d20srd.org
Multiplying

Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you're applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).
When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).
 
Elorie said:
Found it:

The Basics :: d20srd.org
Multiplying

Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you're applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).
When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).
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For what it's worth, I agree with DP's interpretation of it.

When a spell says it doubles the damage of an attack, I've always considered that to mean it literally doubled the damage, regardless of other considerations.

No big deal, though. The Vampire would have died either way.
 
Goldfish said:
For what it's worth, I agree with DP's interpretation of it.

When a spell says it doubles the damage of an attack, I've always considered that to mean it literally doubled the damage, regardless of other considerations.

No big deal, though. The Vampire would have died either way.
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It wasn't an argument, just a query and possibly a notice for the future.

As a lawyer and a rules lawyer, it's hard to ignore such things... :)
 
Elorie said:
Found it:

The Basics :: d20srd.org
Multiplying

Sometimes a rule makes you multiply a number or a die roll. As long as you're applying a single multiplier, multiply the number normally. When two or more multipliers apply to any abstract value (such as a modifier or a die roll), however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (×2) and a double (×2) applied to the same number results in a triple (×3, because 2 + 1 = 3).
When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).
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OK that's... odd. Thanks for sharing this.

I'm inclined to stick to my ruling since it makes more logical sense unless you guys object.

What do you think?
 
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DragonParadox said:
OK that's... odd. Thanks for sharing this.

I'm inclined to stick to my ruling since it makes more logical sense unless you guys object.

What do you think
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The reasoning behind that particular setup in the core rules is to prevent (or rather, diminish) one hit kills, which go both ways. I'd generally stick to it, unless you have a particular reason not to. Overkill is lovely, until it happens to you - ignoring it would allow for easier dragon-killing.
 
Elorie said:
The reasoning behind that particular setup in the core rules is to prevent (or rather, diminish) one hit kills, which go both ways. I'd generally stick to it, unless you have a particular reason not to. Overkill is lovely, until it happens to you - ignoring it would allow for easier dragon-killing.
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Fair enough, though I would have to rewrite the interlude.

Any other thoughts on the matter guys? Personally I'm on the fence on this,on the one hand one hit kills are not the most narratively satisfying, but on the other the various bonus staking and no WBL has already brought the game balance to an odd place, higher damage numbers may help more than they hurt
 
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If Harren is strong enough to fully control a level 16 vampire we've got a problem and will likely need to send in several Companions as well.
 
Well, the Draconomicon has a magical item which grants 100% fortification, i.e. immunity to both critical hits and sneak attacks. Equip the important people with that, and I'm all for faster (and presumably more convenient) combat narrative. Assuming I haven't missed seeing it in the sheets already, of course.
 
Yeah, I'd vote against rewriting the interlude, just remove the comment clarifying the critical hit and it's fine as is.
 
Goldfish said:
Burny: "Ya'll see that?"

Drowned God: "For the fifth fucking time, yeah, we saw it!"

Burny: "I'm just saying, that's my guy right there. He totally smote that leech. Like a champion. Of me!"

Moonsinger: "This is all that Targaryen boy's fault, I just know it."

Burny: "He was all like 'Rargh! Eat the holy flame of my God, bitch' <insert lightsaber whooshing sounds> and she was like 'No!'."

Yss: "zzzz" <snores contentedly>
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The gods true nature is that they are all rpg players and Yss is just that guy that loves to roleplay and talk to the npcs a lot.
 
Duesal said:
@DragonParadox, can we have the vampire's skull?
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Unfortunately it did not leave a skull, the whole body fell to ashes at the searing heat of R'hlor's wrath.

Anyway vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 1, 2019 at 9:07 AM, finished with 115 posts and 16 votes.
  • [X] Meet with Stannis Baratheon. With the bargain you've struck with Storm God, he may yet play a part larger than being but a mere Lord...
    [X] Make your way to the Opaline Vault, examine the Adamantine Golem for any unwelcome surprises from the Efreeti with the help of the Shaitan, and then proceed to Awaken it and do your best to tempt it into your service (full social buffs active of course).
    -[X] Ideally it could either be an active participant in our armies, or it could serve as a guardian for important locations.
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