Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

The argument that SCS1 won't diminish Ling Qi's willingness to sit down and enjoy some non-cultivation quiet time with people sounds like a have your cake and eat it too interpretation to me. While the second half of that Insight is fine, the first half is quite blatant: "There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness." Some Insights just have certain cons associated with them, and it'd take quite a bit of reinterpretation to finagle out of this one. And that line just irks me philosophically, I value precious moments of tranquility too much to accept it. Like with the relatively recent decision to put aside dedicated training time just to be there for her family more, would Ling Qi have even considered it if she had this Insight at the time? I guess it's more likely than not, but the fact that it even puts it into question is enough to make me pass on it.

And as for it being "perfect" for Ling Qi because she already lives under a paradigm of constant growth, then isn't that why we don't actually need to slot it as an Insight? Ling Qi already has an intrinsic drive to learn and improve herself from the very beginning, and I don't realistically see us ever stopping our constant grind to the top. So do we really need the incentive of doubling down on that drive to keep progressing, as though we'll never reach White if we don't get it? I view Slotting Domain Insights as one of the more intrinsic ways we can tweak Ling Qi's character development, to move her personality in new and different directions, so I'd rather spend the Slots on Insights that don't already represent her, either by overlapping with a previous one (TRF1 and FVM) or being redundant to what her character has already been like (SCS1).

[X][SCS] Do not slot Sable Crescent Step

[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.

[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

My preference would be not to slot SCS at all, but if it had to be, rather the second insight.

How is LQ to reflect the stillness of the void (SNR) if her insights compell her never to remain still, find no peace (or rest, which would be the logical consequence) in stillness?

I think the first insight would be incompatible with SNR which is too good to risk this.

NaanContributor said:

And as for it being "perfect" for Ling Qi because she already lives under a paradigm of constant growth, then isn't that why we don't actually need to slot it as an Insight? Ling Qi already has an intrinsic drive to learn and improve herself from the very beginning, and I don't realistically see us ever stopping our constant grind to the top. So do we really need the incentive of doubling down on that drive to keep progressing, as though we'll never reach White if we don't get it? I view Slotting Domain Insights as one of the more intrinsic ways we can tweak Ling Qi's character development, to move her personality in new and different directions, so I'd rather spend the Slots on Insights that don't already represent her, either by overlapping with a previous one (TRF1 and FVM) or being redundant to what her character has already been like (SCS1).

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This is a very relevant point, in a "I utterly disagree with it" relevant.

Insights are how you build your domains, and your domain is a reflection of your self. If all you put in your domain is 'tweaking the personality in a new direction', then it becomes 'I dislike everything about the character and want to change it', to me.

I view slotting insights as affirming something that Ling Qi already believes, and making it core to herself. All those insight choices are more or less things than Ling Qi already believes, she will just believe them moreso as she slots them. There is no "this doesn't represent her", but there is "This was a minor part of her and I want it to be a major part". SCS1 is already a major part of her though, and ignoring a major part of Ling Qi for her domain is, to me, a meta way to decide you don't like who she is and try to delete her character.

Now, there is something of an exxageration in what I am saying here. For example, TRF2 is basically Ling Qi having decided, after multiple character arcs, that she wants to affirm something of hers that she wasn't sure of beforehand. It's the 'conclusion' to her helping Meizhen in thunderdom, or doing her best for Xiulan. It's her response to her doubts after the Forest King arc. Likewise, if there had been a character arc about "Being a cultivator is actually bad for me, and I need to stop growing", purposefully ignoring SCS1 could be key. There hasn't been, though.

TRF1 makes me sad because it's basically everything about how Ling Qi thinks and relates to the world

HeiTian said:

My preference would be not to slot SCS at all, but if it had to be, rather the second insight.

How is LQ to reflect the stillness of the void (SNR) if her insights compell her never to remain still, find no peace (or rest, which would be the logical consequence) in stillness?

I think the first insight would be incompatible with SNR which is too good to risk this.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

An Incompatible Art is one that doesn't grant Domain experience when training it, and - I think, it hasn't come up as far as I know - we can't slot an Insight from the Art in question. In other words, an Incompatible Art is Domain Incompatible, not unlearnable or unusable.

If SNR becomes domain incompatible as a result of slotting SCS 1, then we lose out on 390 domain experience while training it and a possible Insight upon mastering it.

We can still train, equip, and use the Art if it becomes domain incompatible, and the ~4,000 or so domain experience we have lined up from other sources more than covers the loss of 390 from SNR.

I am surprised there aren't more people switching to " Do not slot Sable Crescent Step" since yrsillar said "Successor arts will have separate insights, but those insights will typically synergize with the previous arts insights in some way."

I personally wanted that domain slotted instead of these SCS choices and doubling down on either theme seem....bad?

[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

Raising Kittens said:

An Incompatible Art is one that doesn't grant Domain experience when training it, and - I think, it hasn't come up as far as I know - we can't slot an Insight from the Art in question. In other words, an Incompatible Art is Domain Incompatible, not unlearnable or unusable.

If SNR becomes domain incompatible as a result of slotting SCS 1, then we lose out on 390 domain experience while training it and a possible Insight upon mastering it.

We can still train, equip, and use the Art if it becomes domain incompatible, and the ~4,000 or so domain experience we have lined up from other sources more than covers the loss of 390 from SNR.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If that is so then the argument becomes less heavy.

However, has that mechanism been confirmed by Yrs? The domain is so much the heart and core of LQ as a cultivator that I would, prima facie, expect that arts and techniques incompatible with her domain are diminished in their effectiveness and/or are harder to learn.

HeiTian said:

If that is so then the argument becomes less heavy.

However, has that mechanism been confirmed by Yrs? The domain is so much the heart and core of LQ as a cultivator that I would, prima facie, expect that arts and techniques incompatible with her domain are diminished in their effectiveness and/or are harder to learn.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We have gained an art as available to study that already is domain incompatible.
So implicitly stated.

LightLan said:

We have gained an art as available to study that already is domain incompatible.
So implicitly stated.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Is it? That there is no penalty whatsoever to the art itself?

Sorry for the double post, I am on the mobile and couldn't figure out how to insert quotes while editing. So this is from the domain Tutorial:

yrsillar said:

At the upper reaches of cultivation, domain affects everything a cultivator does, but in the green realm, its effects are much more limited.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

From this my take away would be that the domain would - negatively- effect an incompatible art, but at LQs current stage the effect would be quite small.

HeiTian said:

Is it? That there is no penalty whatsoever to the art itself?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

None. You don't get domain xp, which will make the math cabal froth, but it works just fine.

I'm personally pretty dubious that it would cut out that easily, since we already have a 'stillness' type insight from FSS, and one from TRF now.

It means looking at stillness and silence as death, an inevitable stopping point between life, rather than an impossibility. Stillness isn't good for peace, but bringing the void to war is well and functional

EternalObserver said:

This speaks that we should totally get this. Also, another downside is SNR possibly becoming domain-incompatible due to a contradiction with keywords
which is unfortunate cause it's a pretty good art. Would be nice if it was still compatible, but I'm not gonna hold my hopes up. I'm still gonna vote for it so it's a small sacrifice.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Alectai said:

Hey @yrsillar , just as certain Insights can turn Arts from being Domain Compatible to being Domain incompatible, does that also mean that some Insights when added to the rest of the pool can make formerly incompatible Arts into compatible ones?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This is the entire reason why I've said we need to master Coldstar Blade, so we can get that Contrast Keyword and allow us to have arts and themes that contrast with each other (music/silence, heat/cold, motion/stillness).

Rayous said:

I am surprised there aren't more people switching to " Do not slot Sable Crescent Step" since yrsillar said "Successor arts will have separate insights, but those insights will typically synergize with the previous arts insights in some way."

I personally wanted that domain slotted instead of these SCS choices and doubling down on either theme seem....bad?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I just really like SCS 1. We'll see about LFWT, but I'm not passing up SCS because it's possible slotting both is a bad idea.

1986ctcel said:

This is the entire reason why I've said we need to master Coldstar Blade, so we can get that Contrast Keyword and allow us to have arts and themes that contrast with each other (music/silence, heat/cold, motion/stillness).

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You know, I can help but feel that, provided the Ling Clan gets off the ground, one of them is gonna use the Coldstar Blade Art's Contrast Keyword to cultivate the Sun and the Moon at the same time.

[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

Funny thing about the SCS insights.
There's been arguments about how the second one would be all about greed.
Yet the first insight seems lot greedier because of the constant growth it pushes us towards.

veekie said:

the math cabal froth, but it works just fine.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

So far I haven't seen a single math cabal member froth over this choice in particular. SNR is just so suitable to Ling Qi's fighting style that the consensus seems to be "that would be mildly inconvenient, oh well."

In narrative terms as well, SNR would just a piece of Ling Qi's whole combat suite, and not even the first line of defense. That's what you would expect for a non-domain art that still is learned, a supplementary art (armor supplement to our dodge focused defense) that compliments the whole picture.

Compare that to BSM where it would form the core art, and the bedrock of Ling Qi's social arts. It would flavor every important political social action, and the flavor it would be adding is "this is not Ling Qi." Then you have to take into account social is about showing yourself to the world and try to reconcile presenting a false Ling Qi with "Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured." That seems to narratively push "When I social with BSM, I have no real worth because I'm not being sincere." Not a good approach for something Ling Qi is struggling to learn how to do and tolerate.

"There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end," doesn't have such a clear narrative conflict with occasionally using SNR to not be stabbed. Like, even if it's not Ling Qi's favorite art and she feels bothered and discontent when she uses it...that's okay. It's better than being stabbed, and combat is something Ling Qi has grown somewhat used to. If SNR make combat more unpleasant, she'll blame SNR rather than think that's just how fighting is, because she has a good breadth of experience in using her arts to fight.

So, this is my rumination on why SNR and BSM shouldn't be considered or treated the same, even if both end up being domain incompatible.

Alectai said:

[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You sir, you have convinced me of your way.


[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

1986ctcel said:

This is the entire reason why I've said we need to master Coldstar Blade, so we can get that Contrast Keyword and allow us to have arts and themes that contrast with each other (music/silence, heat/cold, motion/stillness).

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I like the idea with the Contrast Keyword and would like to emphasize that Ling Qi is known for doing things no one, not even herself would have expected beforehand. Training Coldstar Blade would, in my eyes, gain tremendous narrative weight by the idea alone that she is able to combine things and ideas which no one thought possible and make her able to view the world from a different light. Being able to look at both sides of the coin, if you want to look at it that way.

That is not even mentioning the obvious. To become a "proper" Noble, it is expected of her to know how to wield "proper" weapons like a sword. Right now she is simply the cultivator with the flute and music. Ling Qi in her path until now primarily damaged her foes through "indirect" means like the frost of winter, sucking the souls of the enemies dry through mist or using a bow. She wasn't directly in the face of the enemy dealing damage physically. Like her touch of frosty death, Ling Qi let the vibrations of her soul deal the damage. That is atleast the image everyone seems to have of Ling Qi.

In conclusion I will say that through cultivating Coldstar Blade Ling Qi will also cultivate a new contrasting image of hers for herself and her enemies/friends. Ling Qi will be COMMONERBORN/NOBLE LADY and not simply be COMMONERBORN. This would allow her new ways to interact with the nobility of Emerald Seas and beyond.
She is after all more than just a Shadow of Cai in a white gown. Ling Qi is a Songseeker with a Home and Roots in the Emerald Seas, willing to walk path of Cultivation in spite of her origins and together with every friend and ally they will at least try to make something beautiful out of it!

Edit for clarity!

Tallying up

[X][SCS] There is no peace in emptiness, no content in stillness. Stagnation is death; act, change, move, think, and grow until the very end.
[X][TRF] Each scar is merely another ring in the making, from past pain arises new strength
[X][CDE] Do not slot Curious Diviners Eye

I've not got time to follow all the discussion, but I'm surprised by how many people equate not cultivating with stillness. Since when is it so for Ling Qi? If anything, she's been steadily learning that merely having power does nothing for a person without the reason to wield it. Interacting with her family, being friends with people, following her justice concept - that's not stagnation, it's the opposite. It's actually applying her power for something.

Alectai said:

On further thought while I was waiting in line to buy my dinner for work tonight, I have determined that this is the correct path.
be advised this is me pitching for the team I think is best and why I feel that way not a detailed literary analysis

[][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.

Now, you might be asking. "Oh noes alectai what are you doing you're ruining everything forever" But hear me out.

Each and every one of these Domain Insights is compatible with what we've already hammered into place. Let's go review those right now.

-Sincerity is the measure by which the worthiness of the self and ones guests should be measured.
-There are endings and Endings, only the very last one is final. Just as winter ends in spring, small endings are new beginnings.
-Though a path might be hard and lonely, it has worth if you can present something of beauty to those you care for at the end.
-One person's desires cannot, alone make a home nor a family.

In short, the lesson we've been taught so far here is "The world is hard, and full of terrors. It may not always work out the way you want it to--but if you keep trucking along and moving forward, you can make something wonderful out of it."

(...)

n.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This post has made me change my mind. I support what is being said in here, so I'l lchange my vote to this.

[X][SCS] Darkness knows no barriers, and neither should your desires
[X][TRF] Branches and trunks bend and sway, but the roots must remain unyielding. Retreat only so far and then no more.
[X][CDE] Ignorance is no better than blindness.