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Magna Graecia: Titanomachia (A City State Quest)

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The thing with the navy/ships is that in my experience it tends to be both horribly expensive and nearly impossible to replace if we should ever lose large parts of it which seems somewhat likely if we get involved in the damned war. And unlike Athens we don't have nearly endless silver mines in our backyard but would be largely dependent on trade income to finance our fleet, trade income that might markedly decrease if we lose portion of our fleet.
 
Erandil said:
The thing with the navy/ships is that in my experience it tends to be both horribly expensive and nearly impossible to replace if we should ever lose large parts of it which seems somewhat likely if we get involved in the damned war. And unlike Athens we don't have nearly endless silver mines in our backyard but would be largely dependent on trade income to finance our fleet, trade income that might markedly decrease if we lose portion of our fleet.
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Well part of it is that our ships are cheaper to build with the naval demos pick and is that not a situation that the sacred treasury is for?
 
Void Stalker said:
I think overall I came around to going for a stronger navy because we regretted not having one in the past (we could be allied with Taras still if we had a strong navy!) combined with a trading economy so that we can relive some of the Mectic wealth seeking into merchants. Also hoping that we can have enough money to do more building this time around.

Speaking of, could we consider having the sacred treasury drop to 5% income after something like 1 year of military expenses round up at the hundreds place+1000 or something and at 10% below that, that means once we have built up the rainy day fund we put less into it so instead we have more money to invest in improvements which should in turn provide increased income to make that 5% a bigger total amount.
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Honestly, by the time we have an income that large, we would have likely military expenses being increased in size as well. Right now just looking at the war-time costs of our navy and cavalry, we'd be spending about 230 talents per year. Having our army active would increase the cost substantially. Being able to stay financially solvent during an extended war is the point of the Sacred Treasury.
 
Secretariat said:
@Cetashwayo, under the Drakonioi option, is the outpost at Ancona something under our control Civ-style, or is it effectively a kolonia that we can only influence?
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It is a self-governing polis that is a paying and voting member of the Epulian League. To assuage the concerns of league members that Eretria would use Ankon to gain additional votes at the Synedrion and prevent a veto, the colony was settled by citizens from every member state of the Epulian League.

bryanfran36 said:
@Cetashwayo what happened to our Thunderbird by the way?
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The thunderbird is immortal and will never die; it will simply be reborn. Coincidentally, the Temple of the Divine Marriage occasionally sends someone to Syria to purchase ostrich eggs.

These events have absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Erandil said:
The thing with the navy/ships is that in my experience it tends to be both horribly expensive and nearly impossible to replace if we should ever lose large parts of it which seems somewhat likely if we get involved in the damned war. And unlike Athens we don't have nearly endless silver mines in our backyard but would be largely dependent on trade income to finance our fleet, trade income that might markedly decrease if we lose portion of our fleet.
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While it's definitely true that a navy is expensive, the most costly part of a navy in this period is the people, not the ships. The city could rebuild its navy several times over with its Sacred Treasury, but could hardly replace trained rowers easily. Triremes have a light construction which makes them cheaper to build and maintain.
 
[X] Demos Antipatria
[X] ...Thurii & the Sikeliote League.
[X] Syrakousai.
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on May 15, 2019 at 11:47 PM, finished with 232 posts and 74 votes.
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[X] Demos Drakonia
[X] ...The City of Carthage.
[X] Syrakousai

Fittingly enough for the first vote this was not an easy decision. While I initially favored the Exoria I was ultimately swayed by the potential for an Adriatic empire. I imagine we'll chill for the first few things, maybe building a great work or two, while mainland Greece tears itself apart. Then once they are exhausted we can swoop in and try to steal as many Illyric outposts as we can. Regarding our rival I choose Syracuse as IMO they are most easily countered by the Drakonia. Unless we get another Sicillian war any conflict with Syracuse would be fought on the seas where we would rule. Finally I felt compelled to pick Carthage even though it has no chance of winning. One of the things I really loved about the original quest was the Herodion interludes and the alternate path Carthage was set on. I think it'd be quite fascinating to build off of those ties and see what kind of history a Greek-Phoenician alliance could make.
 
Walker Of Chaos said:
[X] Demos Drakonia
[X] ...The City of Carthage.
[X] Syrakousai

Fittingly enough for the first vote this was not an easy decision. While I initially favored the Exoria I was ultimately swayed by the potential for an Adriatic empire. I imagine we'll chill for the first few things, maybe building a great work or two, while mainland Greece tears itself apart. Then once they are exhausted we can swoop in and try to steal as many Illyric outposts as we can. Regarding our rival I choose Syracuse as IMO they are most easily countered by the Drakonia. Unless we get another Sicillian war any conflict with Syracuse would be fought on the seas where we would rule. Finally I felt compelled to pick Carthage even though it has no chance of winning. One of the things I really loved about the original quest was the Herodion interludes and the alternate path Carthage was set on. I think it'd be quite fascinating to build off of those ties and see what kind of history a Greek-Phoenician alliance could make.
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Yeah, unfortunately the thing where they're unreliable allies and every neutral Greek city would become our enemies kinda makes that a rather obviously bad idea.

Honestly, I'm not sure how they're supposed to seem at all equivalent to the other options for allies, considering that particular tidbit. Athens would pull us into the Peloponnesian War, but it wouldn't completely fuck over all the rest of our diplomacy.
 
We also seem to have gained some new subjects during the timeskip. While Aufidenos was apparently stolen from the Korinthians I am curious about the rest. Based on its position it seems like Turai was founded in Messapii land seized during the war though I wonder why they aren't included in the Peuketii kingdom. If I recall correctly they were the original proponents for founding a city there so it seems strange that they do not control it. Finally i'm gonna assume that Monopolis is a colony from the mainland, if so I wonder who their mother city was.
 
Personally I think we should stay friends and trading partners with Carthage, but a full blown alliance brings a lot of problems including distance and the diplomatic issues it could cause with other greeks.

Who knows things could always change in the future to make it more viable.
 
I think one of the nice things about the options is they are all good choices. The allies and enemies is a way to determine our early focus (local or further afield) while all three Demos have there positive points (navy with more ships and more trade, diplo with better relations including another ally and more people for more tax and more men to levy into the army, and the armed one our northern border secure with a tributary there and a stronger land army)
 
[X] Demos Antipatria
[X] ...Thurii & the Sikeliote League.
[X] Taras.

@Cetashwayo, thank you for bringing back Magna Graecia! :cry::cry::cry:

I'll now roleplay as the son of my former IC, but still a proud Psiloi like his father. Because they can run away from any defeat the fastest and earliest.

Hey @Cetashwayo, does the Greek world know of the atlatl?
 
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Ironanvil1 said:
They used a throwing string that served a similar purpose.
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I know about the Amentum. But the question is if the atlatl was generally known by the javelineers of the Mediterannean but just wasn't commonly used.

@Cetashwayo, how respected in Greek society is someone who proudly professes to be a professional psiloi? And is good enough at the job? Are they looked down upon? Or if they really are that good they are given some respect like say, leadership position in the psiloi during a war?
 
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@Cetashwayo, a question.

Why is there an "Illyrian" district in the city map? How come it got that name when presumably any Illyrian would be a metic at this point in time and be in the metic district. What's happening there?
Adhoc vote count started by Admiral Skippy on May 16, 2019 at 10:43 AM, finished with 249 posts and 83 votes.
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The thing that makes me happiest about the 34-year time skip is we'll finally have some god damn Olive Farms and Vineyards!
 
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