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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
If it makes it harder to convince the people who are undecided - which I really, really think it will - it makes it harder for our candidate to win. Also, I didn't specify Asuma.
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It almost surely has to be Asuma. The Sarutobi have super duper goodwill with the Minami.

We can literally buy out the Hagoromo with mountains of pangolin gold. That should take care of their vote.

We can sell Hazou's soul to Sasuke in exchange for his vote.

The clan heads can't vote by proxy, so we can have Mari take another one and Sunny Day no Jutsu them from behind/afar into being super complacent and dazed, then feed them a bunch of sake or something and lead them off somewhere so that they aren't present.

Ideally: We should try to speed up Tsunade's recovery so that we can have the vote while Hiashi's in the hospital, because fuck Hiashi.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on May 12, 2019 at 10:15 PM, finished with 134 posts and 22 votes.
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Deathbybunnies said:
The thing is, all of these arguments are perfectly logical OOC. I agree with them, even! But IC, absolutely no one who we need to convince is going to be convinced. We are literally going in and taking the scroll on the justification that "it makes us stronger, and that's a good thing". Literally! We aren't even trying to hide it! Promising to use our power well is going to be supremely unconvincing to all of the clans we need to convince to vote for our candidate!

You're preaching to the converted, but anyone who doesn't automatically buy into "Clan Goketsu getting stronger is an unambiguous good" is not going to.

Also, Naruto would still be a more convincing person to spout this nonsense - he might get away with it on grounds of raw charisma and being a hero.
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Insofar as actually getting our hands on the scroll, I'm counting on a combination of Hazou, Keiko, and Mari (and maybe even Naruto)'s socials to overwhelm whatever ANBU are guarding it, with our understanding of Jiraiya's will and Hazou's position as Lord Goketsu (in a Konoha with no Hokage and thus no higher authority) as our chief points.

Once we have it, the way I want to legitimize us having the scroll starts with a public announcement/ceremony where both Hazou and Noburi sign their scrolls. The fact that Noburi's claim on the Toad Scroll is ironclad makes it harder to object to Hazou specifically, and we can play misdirection and motte and bailey to deflect criticism even more.

And if we're willing to spend a few more days setting it up, we can probably get the auto-summoned Snake tell everyone that Hazou is the true and only successor of the Snake Scroll, thus making it even harder to argue that we shouldn't have the scroll. In such a situation, Hiashi's objections could be played as petty technicalities when everything all worked out in the end.

It's definitely skeevy, and we'll probably still be eyed with suspicion afterwards, but we should be able to avoid and deflect most direct accusations if we play this well enough, and then over a little bit of time Mari can do what she can to smooth things over in the background.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Insofar as actually getting our hands on the scroll, I'm counting on a combination of Hazou, Keiko, and Mari (and maybe even Naruto)'s socials to overwhelm whatever ANBU are guarding it, with our understanding of Jiraiya's will and Hazou's position as Lord Goketsu (in a Konoha with no Hokage and thus no higher authority) as our chief points.

Once we have it, the way I want to legitimize us having the scroll starts with a public announcement/ceremony where both Hazou and Noburi sign their scrolls. The fact that Noburi's claim on the Toad Scroll is ironclad makes it harder to object to Hazou specifically, and we can play misdirection and motte and bailey to deflect criticism even more.

And if we're willing to spend a few more days setting it up, we can probably get the auto-summoned Snake tell everyone that Hazou is the true and only successor of the Snake Scroll, thus making it even harder to argue that we shouldn't have the scroll. In such a situation, Hiashi's objections could be played as petty technicalities when everything all worked out in the end.

It's definitely skeevy, and we'll probably still be eyed with suspicion afterwards, but we should be able to avoid and deflect most direct accusations if we play this well enough, and then over a little bit of time Mari can do what she can to smooth things over in the background.
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I still think it's a bad idea, but I still think if we're going to do this, we should have Naruto come with us as a clone. It's a lot more possible with his reputation and social skills backing us up, and pulling what looks an awful lot like a prank off with him would probably be good bonding time.

My plan is now the current frontrunner, with Naruto added in:
Deathbybunnies said:
267 Words
[X] Action Plan: Optimising a Bad Idea
  • Plan with Naruto to take the Snake Scroll
    • Where would the scroll be held, and who do we have to convince to give it to us?
    • Naruto sends a clone along with Hazo, Keiko and Mari
    • Go directly to the Tower and take the Scroll.
      • He's Lord Goketsu and the S-Rank hero of the Village
        • We have been lawfully charged with Saving The World, and summon scrolls are invaluable resources that will clear numerous problems for Uplift.
          • We have a right to the Snake Scroll by the letter and spirit of Jiriaya's order, we only need to get that through to the ANBU holding it.
        • Appeal to their personal loyalty to Jiraiya
      • Brandish Orochimaru's pardon and will as applicable.
    • SAN check with Keiko: if you aren't trained at Summoning is it dangerous to sign the scroll or can you just not use it?
      • If it's safe, sign immediately.
Make contact with the Snakes.
  • Learn about Snake culture/predispositions from Pangolins, Toads, Jiraiya's notes...
  • Send message to the snakes via Pangolins
    • We are going to be signing their scroll soon
    • Pay our respects
    • Also, did a Orochimaru leave a will with you guys? He's been pardoned and we'd want his wishes to be carried out.
  • Consider the possibility of getting on their good side by selling them seals that keep them safe from Pangolin expansionism.
  • Suggest trading to the Pangolins an OPSEC-sanitized list of seals to sell, as they've requested.
    • Rewards: While gold/valuables are nice, we could also ask for from conquered nations' jutsu (Condor Space-Time Jutsu?).
      • We'd also like to do something about their treatment of conquered enemies
  • Schedule meetings
    • ISC
    • Sasuke
    • Asuma
    • Minami
    • Hagoromo
    • Akane
    • TenTen
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Might as well do it right, if we're doing it.
 
[X] Action Plan: Speaking of Unity

I really hope we don't try to get the snake scroll before the vote.

Looks like low chance of success and high chance of rather damaging consequences. On top of that, we can safely get the scroll if we win the election.

If we want the scroll, we should first win the election. Trying to get the scroll now is probably going to not get us the scroll, and also lose us the election. And then we really won't ever get it.

On another note, we should definitely warn Naruto about Keiko's boundaries. I was getting extremely uncomfortable each time he used "sis." Purposeful grammar errors is a prank, but jabbing at Keiko's sister trauma is not okay -- even unknowingly.

I've seen this pattern too many times IRL. Easygoing prankster not taking a serious person seriously when they tell the prankster to stop. Annoyance becomes frustration becomes anger becomes a really bad falling out. Let's nip this relationship pitfall in the bud before it grows into a serious problem later on please.

You might say Keiko will just glare hard enough and Naruto will stop. He won't. He's Naruto, he'll push her until she snaps, and unlike Hazou and Noburi, Naruto would stay calm and fight back to infuriate her further. He alone has the power to do that. Trusting him to be emotionally intelligent to avoid this is not a bet I want to take.
 
MMKII said:
Sorry, been distracted recently (family personal life stuff,designing a final exam by committee[BY THE WAY FOLKS: if you think getting plans passed in thread is tough, you should see the epic level arguments that were had in that email chain. Politicking, compromises and arguing, Oh My!] office hours during said finals week, grading 150ish finals, annoying social responsibilities etc).

I can probably get those done later tonight :p
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No rush! Don't stress yourself. Sorry things have been so rough lately.

Deathbybunnies said:
I went by the in-built comment word count - you can tell I've never made a plan before, huh? I'll correct that.
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faflec said:
QMs prefer Google Docs because... ... ... they want to?
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We prefer Google Docs because it's consistent. The SV counter has a bad habit of including BBCode tags in the count.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Insofar as actually getting our hands on the scroll, I'm counting on a combination of Hazou, Keiko, and Mari (and maybe even Naruto)'s socials to overwhelm whatever ANBU are guarding it, with our understanding of Jiraiya's will and Hazou's position as Lord Goketsu (in a Konoha with no Hokage and thus no higher authority) as our chief points.

Once we have it, the way I want to legitimize us having the scroll starts with a public announcement/ceremony where both Hazou and Noburi sign their scrolls. The fact that Noburi's claim on the Toad Scroll is ironclad makes it harder to object to Hazou specifically, and we can play misdirection and motte and bailey to deflect criticism even more.

And if we're willing to spend a few more days setting it up, we can probably get the auto-summoned Snake tell everyone that Hazou is the true and only successor of the Snake Scroll, thus making it even harder to argue that we shouldn't have the scroll. In such a situation, Hiashi's objections could be played as petty technicalities when everything all worked out in the end.

It's definitely skeevy, and we'll probably still be eyed with suspicion afterwards, but we should be able to avoid and deflect most direct accusations if we play this well enough, and then over a little bit of time Mari can do what she can to smooth things over in the background.
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The higher authority in Leaf is the collective will of the clan council. Lord Goketsu does not have power over ANBU or Village assets. I guarantee you that there will be members of ANBU there from clans that also want their clan to have a summoning scroll. Even if we do somehow get it from ANBU if we make a public announcement then certain clans are going to object possibly violently. The fact that we got the Toad scroll isn't going to mean anything if we steal village property. Every clan that wanted that scroll is going to be angry and the Clan Council is going to be incredibly angry because they weren't consulted. It is practically a certainity that they will get back at us somehow and that is something we really don't need at this point. It is quite possible that the clans might demand that the scroll be returned and execute the summoner or declare that we faked legitimate authority and have us all executed for treason.

If you really want to get the scroll, then talk to the clan heads, convince them to support you the same way you convince the ANBU and then get the clan council to give you the scroll.
 
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MrCogmor said:
The higher authority in Leaf is the collective will of the clan council. Lord Goketsu does not have power over ANBU or Village assets. I guarentee you that there will be members of ANBU there from clans that also want their clan to have a summoning scroll. Even if we do somehow get it from ANBU if we make a public announcement then certain clans are going to object possibly violently. The fact that we got the Toad scroll isn't going to mean anything if we steal village property. Every clan that wanted that scroll is going to be angry and the Clan Council is going to be incredibly angry because they weren't consulted. It is practically a certainity that they will get back at us somehow and that is something we really don't need at this point. It is quite possible that the clans might demand that the scroll be returned and execute the summoner or declare that we faked legitimate authority and have us all executed for treason.

If you really want to get the scroll, then talk to the clan heads, convince them to support you the same way you convince the ANBU and then get the clan council to give you the scroll.
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This is all easily dealt with by running the plan past Naruto first, and getting him involved. If any of our many concerns are valid, he'll bring them up himself - and if they aren't, he'll be a big help to the plan anyway. It's strictly an improvement.

I kind of regret naming the plan Optimising A Bad Idea though - I was just trying to reach for a funny name.
 
[X] Action Plan: Speaking of Unity

EDIT: A summoning scroll is not something we can just bavarian fire drill our way into having. An order to save the world will not be accepted by the ANBU guards. This could cause a political incident, harming our reputation with our allies and with neutral clans that we need to sway. If we do this, we do it after the election.

I don't think it will kill us. It will make us seem petulant and entitled.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
First, check this isn't a terrible idea.
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Any chance we could talk with Tsunade as well?
Deathbybunnies said:
Go directly to the Tower and take the Scroll.
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Here's another thought argument we could use, with Hiashi's own words:
Velorien said:
"Third, the matter of the Fifth's qualifications. Lord Hyūga notes that while the Fifth has managed the world's greatest intelligence network for decades, he has no experience of the form of public leadership practised by Hokage past, nor any relevant training such as might be possessed by any ordinary clan head. Lord Hyūga also obliquely refers to the Leaf Three, and implies that the Fifth was the leader of that legendary team, and that he is to be held responsible for its dissolution, Tsunade's choice to distance herself from Leaf, and Orochimaru's choice to betray the village, thus further proving himself to lack the qualities needed to be Hokage."
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By saying Jiraiya was his team's leader, he's made the (minor) implication that he should get Orochimaru's stuff which he hasn't given out in his will.
Deathbybunnies said:
SAN check with Keiko
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What does SAN check mean?
Deathbybunnies said:
Consider the possibility of getting on their good side by selling them seals that keep them safe from Pangolin expansionism.
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We really should word this better because it sounds a lot like "you're so weak our guys will invade and slaughter you all, we're willing to protect you...for a price" to me. Maybe "consider selling seals as part of an alliance with the Pangolins" or something like that?
Deathbybunnies said:
Schedule meetings
  • ISC
  • Sasuke
  • Asuma
  • Minami
  • Hagoromo
  • Akane
  • TenTen
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We need to figure out who we're backing for Hokage before we actually campaign for said candidate and get votes from Minami, Sasuke, and/or Hagoromo. I'd recommend cutting Minami and Hagoromo out altogether unless you're willing to add words explaining this.

Same thing with Akane/Tenten: While it is pretty much just a formality, we shouldn't unilaterally do these things without confirming with the clan, otherwise we look like idiots or are trying to unilaterally do shit ourselves.
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on May 12, 2019 at 11:00 PM, finished with 153 posts and 26 votes.
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I am filled with fear at the outcome of the current vote.

To distract myself, do we have any idea where Akatsuki ended up? If they are still operating as a group then any village they ally with is instantly the strongest. If they split, then I'm very interested in whether or not any of them might be compatible with the Will of Fire, though obviously Naruto wouldn't love that idea.
 
Walter said:
I am filled with fear at the outcome of the current vote.

To distract myself, do we have any idea where Akatsuki ended up? If they are still operating as a group then any village they ally with is instantly the strongest. If they split, then I'm very interested in whether or not any of them might be compatible with the Will of Fire, though obviously Naruto wouldn't love that idea.
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Have you consider voting?

Also, we have no idea what's up with Akatsuki.
 
Walter said:
I am filled with fear at the outcome of the current vote.

To distract myself, do we have any idea where Akatsuki ended up? If they are still operating as a group then any village they ally with is instantly the strongest. If they split, then I'm very interested in whether or not any of them might be compatible with the Will of Fire, though obviously Naruto wouldn't love that idea.
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I've noticed that you've only voted for "Let's go Bowling" which isn't actually a vote for @firestorm440's "Action Plan: Let's Go Bowling" plan. I'm not sure if you've intended to vote for said plan or not, so feel free to ignore this if I'm wrong. Otherwise...maybe fix your vote?
 
faflec said:
Any chance we could talk with Tsunade as well?

Here's another thought argument we could use, with Hiashi's own words:

By saying Jiraiya was his team's leader, he's made the (minor) implication that he should get Orochimaru's stuff which he hasn't given out in his will.

What does SAN check mean?

We really should word this better because it sounds a lot like "you're so weak our guys will invade and slaughter you all, we're willing to protect you...for a price" to me. Maybe "consider selling seals as part of an alliance with the Pangolins" or something like that?

We need to figure out who we're backing for Hokage before we actually campaign for said candidate and get votes from Minami, Sasuke, and/or Hagoromo. I'd recommend cutting Minami and Hagoromo out altogether unless you're willing to add words explaining this.

Same thing with Akane/Tenten: While it is pretty much just a formality, we shouldn't unilaterally do these things without confirming with the clan, otherwise we look like idiots or are trying to unilaterally do shit ourselves.
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To be honest, I just copied @Oneiros' plan and added the Naruto stuff. And fixed some spelling.

I agree with all of your points, but it's 4 am and I'm going to bed. I'll make any changes suggested when I wake up, assuming the thread is still set on doing this.
 
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