Empire: The Glory of Rome (Roman Empire Quest)
- Thread starter phoenixfryre
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[X] Plan: Hold the Line (Aegyptus Edition)
sounds like the better plan even if i am unsure
sounds like the better plan even if i am unsure
- Location
- Brazil
[X] Plan: Hold the Line (Aegyptus Edition)
[X] Plan: Hold the Line (Aegyptus Edition)
- Location
- Tarn-Vedra
[X] Plan: Hold the Line (Aegyptus Edition)
- Location
- Minas Tirith
So time to close the vote!
The Arab Invasion 02
- Location
- Minas Tirith
So Plan Hold the Line (Aegyptus Edition) seems to have won fairly convincingly, on we go! Also, screw the die. I'm sure someone somewhere died due to the karmic imbalance.
Before dawn the garrison of Arish has already marched at breakneck paces, abandoning the fort and joined the forces of Pelusium in swift evacuation but it wasn't truly meant to be, the Bedouins seeking to join the Arabs encountered the retreating infantrymen causing a skirmish to breakout.
It shouldn't have gone the way it did, 2,000 brave Romans stood prepared. Strategos Theodorus had positioned himself on a hill, he could see the Bedouins coming forward and rushing onto the hill.
It seemed their commander had not paid the same attention to detail in their eagerness to catch the Roman column off guard.
The Bedouins did not survive for long, the first wave of Javelins wiped out a large amount and by the time they tried to rout they found a full rush from the Limitanie they had seeked to destroy, no Bedouin survived the charge.
Just fifty-six Romans had been killed in comparison to the thousands of Bedouins that were slaughtered in the first Battle of Pelusium, the invading Arabs or their remaining Bedouin allies would never know that 2,000 Bedouin soldiers were dead as they would cheerfully occupy both Pelusium and Arish.
The remaining retreat was less eventful with the General leading his men to Babylon successfully where he joined with Prefect Aretion who had not only mustered 9,000 men but successfully negotiated the hiring of 4,000 Nubian cavalry.
By the end of the month the small army of 15,000 men had left towards Pelusium, it would be halfway to Pelusium that the Arab army of nearly 6,000 men faced a number nearly triple their total might.
The battle was fairly slow when compared to the earlier battles of great manoeuvring fought by the Arabs, later on, credit for the sub-par performance of the Arab cavalrymen would be blamed on the stellar performance by Nubian auxilia.
The Roman line of battle was staunchly dug into the familiar terrain and compared to the Arab infantry they held far more sturdily.
The Battle began with the Arab Cavalry attempting to gain a flanking advantage against the Roman lines only to be rudely surprised by Nubian cavalry sallying to repel the Arabs and much to their surprise they were firmly repelled and it was the Romans who ended up flanking the smaller enemy.
Within a matter of hours, the Romans had captured both the General and a fourth of his men that survived the encirclement.
Prefect Aretion clawed his throat raw yelling for his men to stop at that point after the Arabian surrender but his men were in no mood to listen. Nearly 20 Years of Sassanid occupation and bloody fighting followed by the Arabs so casually, so jovially marching into Aegyptus caused the men to see red.
They hacked and hacked and hacked till nought remained, all the Arabs were slaughtered, try as he might the Prefect knew the truth and judging by the horrified looks of the Nubian cavalry they knew too.
The Prefect had lost control of his men, Amr-ibn-al-asn was no more and with him, the invading force of Arabs had simply vanished. By the dawn of the next day the Ghassanids were finally arriving at Pelusium, they had left a garrison of 4,000 men at Arish whilst the Ghassanid King Jabalah swore fealty to the Emperor in front of his men and Aretion.
22,000 Infantry (11,000 Romans) and 4,000 Cavalry were now garrisoned in Pelusium, well supplied by the grain from Aegyptus they were poised for either an offensive or securing the gateways to Aegyptus.
What would the Prefect do now?
[ ] Garrison in Pelusium with all his men, preparing for the reinforcements that were to help the now dead Amr ibn al-asn.
[ ] Split his troops in half, garrisoning both entrances to the Prefecture of Aegyptus, both Suez and Pelusium.
[ ] Advance forward to Giza, the well-fortified town wouldn't have too many Arabs guarding it. Especially with the Ghassanids also marching there.
[ ] Advance forward with half his men to take back Giza, let General Theodorus take the remaining half to Petra and Aila (Elat) re-establishing the defensive line breached by the Arabs in Palaestina.
[ ] Send the garrisons back and take command of the allied armies of the Ghassanids and Nubians.
At the same time, a Roman force in the South regrouped and assembled itself Khalid ibn-al Walid marched onwards towards the goal given to him by the prophet. The city of Edessa and the province of Jazira.
Opposing him in the relatively flat terrain was Strategos Theodore who had managed to gather 4 of the 12 Meros stuck in Anatolia for a last stand at the gates of Edessa.
The Battle of Edessa was the last attempt by the Imperial Army to defend positions south of the Anatolian mountains against the Arabs if they lost that'd be it for Northern Syria.
The Battle was started by Theodore in traditional Roman formation, his Infantry forming a wide yet deep line with their right flank being slightly weaker to strengthen the left flank, where much of their cavalry was positioned.
In contrast, Arab lines were more tightly packed with their cavalry ready to pounce on the Roman lines.
Just 4 Years ago Khalid had defeated a Roman army far bigger than Theodore's host decisively in the Battle of Yarmouk. This was different, the Romans had learnt their lesson well. They didn't wait for the Arabs to launch their attack, rather their formation thrust itself forward all of a sudden to force the Arabs into melee.
From here on Khalid used his mobile reserve to attack the Roman left thrice, thrice he was repulsed by Roman cavalry, the fourth time he led his reserve to attack the Roman right. He succeeded, it was a trap.
Khalid's attack on the Roman right lured him in whilst the Roman Cavalry pushed forward through the Arab left using both, superior numbers and flanking cavalry to push them till the Left broke before the Roman right could falter truly.
With the shattering of the Arab left the Roman right was free to encircle the centre and before too long the entire Arab army found itself in the throes of an encirclement.
The Arabs tried, again and again, to break free from their encirclement but each time they were repulsed a third of their number was dead or routed and the remaining 11,000 was extremely depleted.
By the end of the day, Khalid had to surrender and thankfully for him, the Veterans of the Stratiotai were the veterans of Yarmouk, discipline was in their veins. They had seen hell where their brothers in arms were cut down like wheat yet they stood against the same man and the same army with lesser numbers.
This was a professional army, a voluntary service. One of the few in the entire world, the Strategos ordered a stop to the killing, and they listened at once.
Still, the day couldn't have ended better, the Arab string of victories was broken. Both Euphratensis and Osroene were firmly within Imperial hands, the Imperial Meros were once more heartened by these victories and above all - The capture of Khalid the butcher.
The Anatolian armies were now more free to manoeuvre,
[ ] Take 4 Meros and advance on Chalcis, the fortress would be vital to cut off Arab access to Antioch itself.
[ ] Take your men and advance on Antiochea itself, though beware the Queen of Oriens is occupied by a sizable Arab army.
[ ] Reorganise the defensive line properly, advance on Azaz and Alexandria (on the Issus) to cut off the Infidel's access to the Queen of Oriens.
[ ] Reorganise the defensive line and hold back preparing for a further incursion into Euphratensis and Osroene.
In the south the rumours of a prodigious alchemist in occupied Heliopolis (Syria) are true but it seems Roman agents were caught before they could extract him.
Thankfully the Arabs are not aware of what - or whom - they were searching for, the Alchemist remains safe. For now.
In Constantinople, the Imperator continued teaching his young heir the ways of statesmanship to great success.
[Heraklonas gains 1 ADM, 1 DIP]
Though it seems the young prodigy was too good at martial thinking and ability to be truly taught by the Imperator, which was high praise coming from one so accomplisehd himself.
Treasury: 14,000 Solidius
Income: 13,000 Solidius
+160,000 Taxes
+050,000 Production
+012,000 Trade
-148,000 Army
-020,000 Navy
-41,000 Imperial Administration
Projects: (Can take as many, Imperator can focus on One to reduce cost by 50%)
[ ] (Cost 12,000 for Three Turns) The recent Persian War has damaged all of Oriens, Asiana and Aegyptus, the infrastructure lost has caused a loss in revenue and logistical ability to field large armies, this needs to be remedied. (Significantly Increases Revenue)
[ ] (20,000) Repair the Infrastructure of Asiana and Pontus completely. [Increase Revenue and Administration cost] [Increase available manpower and population growth.]
[ ] (25,000) Gather supplies for an offensive into Oriens, the navy will be prepared and the Imperial Meros in Anatolia will launch a massive amphibious as well as overland liberation of Roman lands.
[ ] (Cost 15000) Invest into diplomatically vassalising the Berber tribes once more and coax the coastline back into rightful Roman hands
[ ] (Cost 20000) Invest into Italia to revitalise the lost heartland of the Empire.
[ ] (Cost 20000) Invest into the four queens, or at least the three you control. (Invests into Thessalonica, Ephesus and Alexandria.
[ ] (Cost 28,000) Invest into Thraciae and Macedonia heavily, increasing urbanisation, civic facilities, manufacturies and universities. [Increase revenue, population and administration cost significantly.]
Imperator's personal actions:
[ ] You are spry for a 65-Year-Old man but after Yarmouk depression has gripped you, perhaps it is not unwise to let your heirs govern for a while and gather yourself back, though recent victories have bolstered your mood.
[ ] (-1,000) One of your heirs, Constantine, passed away recently at the young age of 27. Arrange a public and grand funeral for him. (Increases trade and tax income from Constantinople for One Turn)
[ ] Recently there have been rumours of Serbian Activity on the frontier, perhaps you should go and show them why they should fear the Empire? (Take 4 Meros and put an end to their abomination of a state.)
Nation: Imperium Romanorum
Year: 641 Anno Domini
Imperator: Flavius Heraclius Augustus [ADM:8/DIP:7/MAR:9]
Heir: Heraklonas (14 Years) [ADM:7/DIP:3/MAR:10]
Population: 15,150,000
Before dawn the garrison of Arish has already marched at breakneck paces, abandoning the fort and joined the forces of Pelusium in swift evacuation but it wasn't truly meant to be, the Bedouins seeking to join the Arabs encountered the retreating infantrymen causing a skirmish to breakout.
It shouldn't have gone the way it did, 2,000 brave Romans stood prepared. Strategos Theodorus had positioned himself on a hill, he could see the Bedouins coming forward and rushing onto the hill.
It seemed their commander had not paid the same attention to detail in their eagerness to catch the Roman column off guard.
The Bedouins did not survive for long, the first wave of Javelins wiped out a large amount and by the time they tried to rout they found a full rush from the Limitanie they had seeked to destroy, no Bedouin survived the charge.
Just fifty-six Romans had been killed in comparison to the thousands of Bedouins that were slaughtered in the first Battle of Pelusium, the invading Arabs or their remaining Bedouin allies would never know that 2,000 Bedouin soldiers were dead as they would cheerfully occupy both Pelusium and Arish.
The remaining retreat was less eventful with the General leading his men to Babylon successfully where he joined with Prefect Aretion who had not only mustered 9,000 men but successfully negotiated the hiring of 4,000 Nubian cavalry.
By the end of the month the small army of 15,000 men had left towards Pelusium, it would be halfway to Pelusium that the Arab army of nearly 6,000 men faced a number nearly triple their total might.
The battle was fairly slow when compared to the earlier battles of great manoeuvring fought by the Arabs, later on, credit for the sub-par performance of the Arab cavalrymen would be blamed on the stellar performance by Nubian auxilia.
The Roman line of battle was staunchly dug into the familiar terrain and compared to the Arab infantry they held far more sturdily.
The Battle began with the Arab Cavalry attempting to gain a flanking advantage against the Roman lines only to be rudely surprised by Nubian cavalry sallying to repel the Arabs and much to their surprise they were firmly repelled and it was the Romans who ended up flanking the smaller enemy.
Within a matter of hours, the Romans had captured both the General and a fourth of his men that survived the encirclement.
Prefect Aretion clawed his throat raw yelling for his men to stop at that point after the Arabian surrender but his men were in no mood to listen. Nearly 20 Years of Sassanid occupation and bloody fighting followed by the Arabs so casually, so jovially marching into Aegyptus caused the men to see red.
They hacked and hacked and hacked till nought remained, all the Arabs were slaughtered, try as he might the Prefect knew the truth and judging by the horrified looks of the Nubian cavalry they knew too.
The Prefect had lost control of his men, Amr-ibn-al-asn was no more and with him, the invading force of Arabs had simply vanished. By the dawn of the next day the Ghassanids were finally arriving at Pelusium, they had left a garrison of 4,000 men at Arish whilst the Ghassanid King Jabalah swore fealty to the Emperor in front of his men and Aretion.
22,000 Infantry (11,000 Romans) and 4,000 Cavalry were now garrisoned in Pelusium, well supplied by the grain from Aegyptus they were poised for either an offensive or securing the gateways to Aegyptus.
What would the Prefect do now?
[ ] Garrison in Pelusium with all his men, preparing for the reinforcements that were to help the now dead Amr ibn al-asn.
[ ] Split his troops in half, garrisoning both entrances to the Prefecture of Aegyptus, both Suez and Pelusium.
[ ] Advance forward to Giza, the well-fortified town wouldn't have too many Arabs guarding it. Especially with the Ghassanids also marching there.
[ ] Advance forward with half his men to take back Giza, let General Theodorus take the remaining half to Petra and Aila (Elat) re-establishing the defensive line breached by the Arabs in Palaestina.
[ ] Send the garrisons back and take command of the allied armies of the Ghassanids and Nubians.
~o~
At the same time, a Roman force in the South regrouped and assembled itself Khalid ibn-al Walid marched onwards towards the goal given to him by the prophet. The city of Edessa and the province of Jazira.
Opposing him in the relatively flat terrain was Strategos Theodore who had managed to gather 4 of the 12 Meros stuck in Anatolia for a last stand at the gates of Edessa.
The Battle of Edessa was the last attempt by the Imperial Army to defend positions south of the Anatolian mountains against the Arabs if they lost that'd be it for Northern Syria.
The Battle was started by Theodore in traditional Roman formation, his Infantry forming a wide yet deep line with their right flank being slightly weaker to strengthen the left flank, where much of their cavalry was positioned.
In contrast, Arab lines were more tightly packed with their cavalry ready to pounce on the Roman lines.
Just 4 Years ago Khalid had defeated a Roman army far bigger than Theodore's host decisively in the Battle of Yarmouk. This was different, the Romans had learnt their lesson well. They didn't wait for the Arabs to launch their attack, rather their formation thrust itself forward all of a sudden to force the Arabs into melee.
From here on Khalid used his mobile reserve to attack the Roman left thrice, thrice he was repulsed by Roman cavalry, the fourth time he led his reserve to attack the Roman right. He succeeded, it was a trap.
Khalid's attack on the Roman right lured him in whilst the Roman Cavalry pushed forward through the Arab left using both, superior numbers and flanking cavalry to push them till the Left broke before the Roman right could falter truly.
With the shattering of the Arab left the Roman right was free to encircle the centre and before too long the entire Arab army found itself in the throes of an encirclement.
The Arabs tried, again and again, to break free from their encirclement but each time they were repulsed a third of their number was dead or routed and the remaining 11,000 was extremely depleted.
By the end of the day, Khalid had to surrender and thankfully for him, the Veterans of the Stratiotai were the veterans of Yarmouk, discipline was in their veins. They had seen hell where their brothers in arms were cut down like wheat yet they stood against the same man and the same army with lesser numbers.
This was a professional army, a voluntary service. One of the few in the entire world, the Strategos ordered a stop to the killing, and they listened at once.
Still, the day couldn't have ended better, the Arab string of victories was broken. Both Euphratensis and Osroene were firmly within Imperial hands, the Imperial Meros were once more heartened by these victories and above all - The capture of Khalid the butcher.
The Anatolian armies were now more free to manoeuvre,
[ ] Take 4 Meros and advance on Chalcis, the fortress would be vital to cut off Arab access to Antioch itself.
[ ] Take your men and advance on Antiochea itself, though beware the Queen of Oriens is occupied by a sizable Arab army.
[ ] Reorganise the defensive line properly, advance on Azaz and Alexandria (on the Issus) to cut off the Infidel's access to the Queen of Oriens.
[ ] Reorganise the defensive line and hold back preparing for a further incursion into Euphratensis and Osroene.
In the south the rumours of a prodigious alchemist in occupied Heliopolis (Syria) are true but it seems Roman agents were caught before they could extract him.
Thankfully the Arabs are not aware of what - or whom - they were searching for, the Alchemist remains safe. For now.
In Constantinople, the Imperator continued teaching his young heir the ways of statesmanship to great success.
[Heraklonas gains 1 ADM, 1 DIP]
Though it seems the young prodigy was too good at martial thinking and ability to be truly taught by the Imperator, which was high praise coming from one so accomplisehd himself.
~o~
Treasury: 14,000 Solidius
Income: 13,000 Solidius
+160,000 Taxes
+050,000 Production
+012,000 Trade
-148,000 Army
-020,000 Navy
-41,000 Imperial Administration
Projects: (Can take as many, Imperator can focus on One to reduce cost by 50%)
[ ] (Cost 12,000 for Three Turns) The recent Persian War has damaged all of Oriens, Asiana and Aegyptus, the infrastructure lost has caused a loss in revenue and logistical ability to field large armies, this needs to be remedied. (Significantly Increases Revenue)
[ ] (20,000) Repair the Infrastructure of Asiana and Pontus completely. [Increase Revenue and Administration cost] [Increase available manpower and population growth.]
[ ] (25,000) Gather supplies for an offensive into Oriens, the navy will be prepared and the Imperial Meros in Anatolia will launch a massive amphibious as well as overland liberation of Roman lands.
[ ] (Cost 15000) Invest into diplomatically vassalising the Berber tribes once more and coax the coastline back into rightful Roman hands
[ ] (Cost 20000) Invest into Italia to revitalise the lost heartland of the Empire.
[ ] (Cost 20000) Invest into the four queens, or at least the three you control. (Invests into Thessalonica, Ephesus and Alexandria.
[ ] (Cost 28,000) Invest into Thraciae and Macedonia heavily, increasing urbanisation, civic facilities, manufacturies and universities. [Increase revenue, population and administration cost significantly.]
Imperator's personal actions:
[ ] You are spry for a 65-Year-Old man but after Yarmouk depression has gripped you, perhaps it is not unwise to let your heirs govern for a while and gather yourself back, though recent victories have bolstered your mood.
[ ] (-1,000) One of your heirs, Constantine, passed away recently at the young age of 27. Arrange a public and grand funeral for him. (Increases trade and tax income from Constantinople for One Turn)
[ ] Recently there have been rumours of Serbian Activity on the frontier, perhaps you should go and show them why they should fear the Empire? (Take 4 Meros and put an end to their abomination of a state.)
Nation: Imperium Romanorum
Year: 641 Anno Domini
Imperator: Flavius Heraclius Augustus [ADM:8/DIP:7/MAR:9]
Heir: Heraklonas (14 Years) [ADM:7/DIP:3/MAR:10]
Population: 15,150,000
Last edited:
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
Well, that went well. So Phoenix does this mean that the Persians aren't going to fall to the Arabs or is that still going on?
- Location
- UK
@phoenixfryre Can we go into debt? If so, do we have to pay interest, and are there any other penalties that we suffer?
- Location
- Minas Tirith
The Persians are safe from the Arabs, though that means jack all when they can barely muster 6,000 men. They're staying behind the Iranian mountain range and hoping to god the Arabs ignore them.
You can't go into debt but you can debase the currency. And suffer like hell, remember debasing currency was vital in the crisis of the third century.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States
Holy shit. I can't think of how this could possibly go better, the Islamic offensive is dead.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
All we have to do is reestablish defensive lines, destroy that last Arab army and then reclaim our lost territory and we should have this war all wrapped up. It's unfortunate we don't have the infrastructure and funds to pursue an offensive campaign against the Arabians as retaliation though.
Archon of Ghosts
Servant of Rome
- Location
- Luxembourg
[X] Plan: Reforming the Line
-[X] Split his troops in half, garrisoning both entrances to the Prefecture of Aegyptus, both Suez and Pelusium.
-[X] Reorganise the defensive line properly, advance on Azaz and Alexandria (on the Euphrates) to cut off the Infidel's access to the Queen of Oriens.
-[X] (10,000) Repair the Infrastructure of Asiana and Pontus completely. [Increase Revenue and Administration cost] [Increase available manpower and population growth.] [Imperator Focus]
-[X] Recently there have been rumours of Serbian Activity on the frontier, perhaps you should go and show them why they should fear the Empire? (Take 4 Meros and put an end to their abomination of a state.)
Alright, so next turn, the Carthaginian forces should finally arrive to the theatre of operations, which would give us 10k infantry and 4k cavalry extra for our forces there, and allow us to refocus our garrisons to the entrances of Aegyptus, and then push ahead. As for the North, advancing the line and placing pressure upon Antiochia would start allowing us to build momentum on our side and start to kick them out of the Oriens. Mostly, I'm just doing a delaying tactic as we rebuild our lost infrastructure and assemble our units back into position, laying the foundations for further advances and developments.
-[X] Split his troops in half, garrisoning both entrances to the Prefecture of Aegyptus, both Suez and Pelusium.
-[X] Reorganise the defensive line properly, advance on Azaz and Alexandria (on the Euphrates) to cut off the Infidel's access to the Queen of Oriens.
-[X] (10,000) Repair the Infrastructure of Asiana and Pontus completely. [Increase Revenue and Administration cost] [Increase available manpower and population growth.] [Imperator Focus]
-[X] Recently there have been rumours of Serbian Activity on the frontier, perhaps you should go and show them why they should fear the Empire? (Take 4 Meros and put an end to their abomination of a state.)
Alright, so next turn, the Carthaginian forces should finally arrive to the theatre of operations, which would give us 10k infantry and 4k cavalry extra for our forces there, and allow us to refocus our garrisons to the entrances of Aegyptus, and then push ahead. As for the North, advancing the line and placing pressure upon Antiochia would start allowing us to build momentum on our side and start to kick them out of the Oriens. Mostly, I'm just doing a delaying tactic as we rebuild our lost infrastructure and assemble our units back into position, laying the foundations for further advances and developments.
- Location
- UK
Ah, so that's not really a decent option then. And are there are any administrative measures and reforms we can take? How about implementing a system of themes, or at least temporarily placing military commanders in charge of our provinces? While that's obviously not going to help stability in the long run, it should help to prevent defection from civilian governors as happened in the OTL.
Also, are there any measures we can make to help deal with rampant tax evasion from the elites? I know that was more of a problem in particular in the 6th century AD under Justinian, and that the major problems affecting the Empire are simply economic devastation and war, but there might be cash to be found there.
As another source of funds, what about the church? Given how the war against the Sasanians resulted in the use of extreme religious propaganda, with Heraclius's army essentially being fundamentalist zealots, we might be able to say that the Church should give up gold and suchlike to help pay for the war, and for reconstruction.
Additionally, do we have any recourse to call for aid from any territories in Western Europe? Nominally at least, most of the local rulers should still owe fealty to the Eastern Roman Empire. Perhaps we can offer marriages to our sons, or to recognise one of the Lombards, Franks, or Visigoths etc. as Western Emperor or our Viceroy in exchange for support. Whatever we can do to get money and men, we should.
Sir LagsAlot
Yandere Dice Magnet
- Location
- In the fridge
[X] Plan: Reforming the Line
The reinforcements should be enough to compensate for splitting our forces as each half of our army should be the same size or larger than the approaching Arabian armies on top of our defensive advantages.
The reinforcements should be enough to compensate for splitting our forces as each half of our army should be the same size or larger than the approaching Arabian armies on top of our defensive advantages.
- Location
- United States
Is there any reason we shouldn't advance into Giza with the Ghassanids? Seems like free real-estate and we should probably capitalize on the utter havoc that must have erupted in the Arab lines.
That's a no-shit. Can't see any reason why we wouldn't pick this.
I'm going to assume that this is placed to enable an offensive in the coming turns.
That would almost certainly ensure there aren't any problems on that front, although now would also be a good time to pick the option that looks like it eases the emperor's health problems.
Unfortunately, reforms like this should probably wait until the Empire isn't at war. Causing significant unrest on the home front during a key moment would be disastrous.
That ... that's not actually a bad idea. I mean, it'd be politically painful, and I'm not sure how trustworthy they would be, but we're not getting the land back anytime soon. Better to try and achieve at least somewhat cordial relations with the west, getting recourses out of it would be a neat bonus.
- Location
- Minas Tirith
Can you recognise the Germans illegally occupying former Roman provinces. Yes.
Can you bring over another 10-20k troops from the West. Yes.
But the question is, should you?
- Location
- New York
Well, by the time they arrive at the front, the front would've stabilized. Furthermore, they would be culturally distinct from the Arabs so they won't work with the enemy. Lastly, their heavy cavalry would do wonders for a surprise charge.
- Location
- UK
Yeah, I get that a massive legal and administrative shake up of the sort capable of solving huge problems like tax evasion might not be possible. However, I don't see why we couldn't temporarily grant military commanders authority over their civil counterparts. The creation of the Thematic system is usually dated to either the reign of Heraclius, or his grandson Constans II, which demonstrates that more sophisticated reforms based on the concept were also possible even when the Empire was at war. A stopgap emergency policy to stop cowardly governors from surrendering shouldn't be too hard to implement.
In my view "recognising the Germans illegally occupying former Roman provinces" costs us very little. We wouldn't be able to stage an invasion for a long time, and much like in Justinian's case it might merely weaken the Empire and open multiple fronts as we exchange pliable clients and quasi-vassals for enemies. Even if we won, winning might prove so costly and ruinous that we ought not to have bothered in the first place. It might be seen as humiliating to some degree, but if it won us money or manpower, or simply smoothed tensions and ensured peaceful borders and uninterrupted trade, then that would be worth it as well. Pride won't pay our troops or win wars.
Well, if you want to get into it, the legality of "Germans" occuping former Roman provinces is rather more complicated than it simply being illegal. Most of the "barbarian invasions" weren't really anything of the sort, and much of the settlement and migration was comparatively peaceful, and the foederati were granted land that the Western Roman state could no longer effectively administer. Prior to Justinian's decision to invade Italy, the Ostrogoths recognised him as their overlord and Emperor. In fact, as far as they were concerned, they were Roman citizens. They recognised the Emperor in Constantinople as their liege, and sometimes paid tribute, while also upholding old Roman laws and such.
Now, we could take the view of Justinian, and aim to reconquer the Western Empire. If we do so, then recognising the legitimacy of the successor kingdoms in Western Europe would obviously not be to our advantage. However, there are also quite a few problems with that. Much like Justinian's conquest of Italy, it would involve a long and costly campaign that we probably won't be able to afford for a few generations. Our people and lands are exhausted from war, without even considering that the impact of the plague of Justinian from a century ago is still acutely felt.
Even if we succeeded in capturing that territory, then it would likely be useless. Italy was essentially a barren wasteland, destroyed by various Roman, Ostrogoth, and Lombard armies, with Rome being sacked multiple times. Its cities were ruins, as was its farmland, and it was tremendously unprofitable and a net drain on the resources of Empire, given the cost of garrisoning it. We don't need to be even more overstretched at a time when the Empire is the most vulnerable its pretty much ever been.
Furthermore, as institutions and practices such as Roman legal systems and administrative structures were often preserved by the successor states of the Western Empire, our conquest would actually risk destroying some of the last remnants of the Western Roman Empire, which would be quite the bitter irony.
Now, we could take the view of Justinian, and aim to reconquer the Western Empire. If we do so, then recognising the legitimacy of the successor kingdoms in Western Europe would obviously not be to our advantage. However, there are also quite a few problems with that. Much like Justinian's conquest of Italy, it would involve a long and costly campaign that we probably won't be able to afford for a few generations. Our people and lands are exhausted from war, without even considering that the impact of the plague of Justinian from a century ago is still acutely felt.
Even if we succeeded in capturing that territory, then it would likely be useless. Italy was essentially a barren wasteland, destroyed by various Roman, Ostrogoth, and Lombard armies, with Rome being sacked multiple times. Its cities were ruins, as was its farmland, and it was tremendously unprofitable and a net drain on the resources of Empire, given the cost of garrisoning it. We don't need to be even more overstretched at a time when the Empire is the most vulnerable its pretty much ever been.
Furthermore, as institutions and practices such as Roman legal systems and administrative structures were often preserved by the successor states of the Western Empire, our conquest would actually risk destroying some of the last remnants of the Western Roman Empire, which would be quite the bitter irony.
Now, moving on to the matter of bringing troops over: yeah, it could be problematic. However, provide we don't decide to ask soldiers from the Balkans to garrison our northern border, or anything equivalent to that, then we should be able to avoid any nasty defections and land siezures. If they're deployed to Syria, and are fighting alongside Roman troops, I don't think we'd have much to worry about. Weighing the risks against the benefits of manpower, and it's a cost that I think might be worth it. Of course, all this is assuming that they might give us troops instead of gold, which would both be without any associated risks and perhaps far more beneficial.
Last edited:
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Wow, if we keep rolling this well then Rome will definitely live again
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
[X] Plan: Reforming the Line
- Status