Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Kiba · Jun 22, 2018

Enjou said:
Very much this. Doing the right thing might help our standing in Leaf or any other village, but not here.

If we feel that we need to help, we can see about convincing STL to help with the aftermath.

If people die, it's going to be a huge political clusterfuck.

Vecht · Jun 22, 2018

Enjou said:
This will likely require moving forward into the Mist, which will help obscure him

We were just almost killed by a Wakahisa and you want to enter mists when we can be almost assured our prior assailant is present?

No.

Good plan otherwise; please remove this point and I would be happy to vote for it.

Jello_Raptor said:
Hmm, would busting through the doors be something that would help?

Make it so people aren't crushed against the wall as much?

I have seen so many posts concerned about the doors, this is just the most quotable one.

Guys:

Yes, we are ninja who can use ninja magic or brute strength to break open the doors
BUT THEY ARE ALSO ALL NINJA WHO CAN USE NINJA MAGIC OR BRUTE STRENGTH TO BREAK OPEN THE DOORS
Some of them are even ninja who considerably outskill us and whose job it is to keep all the others safe

Those closed doors are not going to hurt anyone, and they are not our problem.

Enjou · Jun 22, 2018

Also, throwing Goo Bombs into the middle of the crowd may not improve the situation.

faflec · Jun 22, 2018

Cariyaga said:
They know we have Goo Bombs, yes. Don't they look quite similar to Syrup Trap in effect, though?

eaglejarl said:
Of her team, Noa was first off the mark, fight-or-flight washing away the exhaustion of no sleep. She was halfway up the building when the pebbles hit the ground and erupted, throwing iridescent goop everywhere. She was barely out of the blast radius, but Hironori and Eisuke weren't so lucky; from behind her she heard squelching sounds and cries of "Hey!", but she couldn't stop to help. She needed that paper or she'd be disqualified!

OliWhail said:
Hinata tried to divert course, to leap out of the way of the tidal wave of pale gray-lavender goop spewing from Noburi's mouth and blotting out the sun, but it wasn't any use - she got completely covered in the rapidly-hardening gunk, and she could hear Shino struggling with it behind her.

In effect (binding people)? Yes. Color/method? No.

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2018

Enjou said:
Also, throwing Goo Bombs into the middle of the crowd may not improve the situation.

...How would it not? It wouldn't improve how panicked they were, true, but they dissipate after ten minutes anyway. I care not for their panic, just for how alive they are at the end of this.

Drasky · Jun 22, 2018

MMKII said:
But following this to the letter conflicts with some implicit orders and canon knowledge we have regarding how important these exams are to leaf. If there is even the slightest chance that an incident happens that all of Leaf could be reasonably disqualified for, then we need to take reasonable steps to stop that from happening.

Yeah, disqualification of everyone from leaf is political suicide for Mist. So no there isn't even a chance of an incident like this happening even if they can find a way to implicate us.

This incident is being overblown more than it deserves to be, when it is not that big of a deal.

MMKII said:
This is all aside from the fact that in character we would probably try to stop these deaths.

We also killed a whole ship in canon. Also what deaths? At most people will end up with bruises and some broken limbs. Death at this point is very unlikely. The swamp exam had a much higher chance of causing someone's death compared to this.

I'm feeling that there is some paranoia going on that is a bit excessive.

Emstar · Jun 22, 2018

Enjou said:
Also, throwing Goo Bombs into the middle of the crowd may not improve the situation.

While I want to diffuse the situation I agree with this.

Cariyaga said:
...How would it not? It wouldn't improve how panicked they were, true, but they dissipate after ten minutes anyway. I care not for their panic, just for how alive they are at the end of this.

You're bringing 2 sections of the crowd to a screeching halt. It might not even cover the entirety of the front or back with just 2.

Drasky said:
Yeah, disqualification of everyone from leaf is political suicide for Mist. So no there isn't even a chance of an incident like this happening even if they can find a way to implicate us.

This incident is being overblown more than it deserves to be, when it is not that big of a deal.

So is violating the neutrality of the exams.

We also killed a whole ship in canon. Also what deaths? At most people will end up with bruises and some broken limbs. Death at this point is very unlikely. The swamp exam had a much higher chance of causing someone's death compared to this.

I'm feeling that there is some paranoia going on that is a bit excessive.

Something something constant vigilance.

Kiba · Jun 22, 2018

Drasky said:
I'm feeling that there is some paranoia going on that is a bit excessive.

Caused by assessment and appraisal of the crushing danger when they reached the door as opposed to merely a stampede.

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2018

MMKII said:
While I want to diffuse the situation I agree with this.

You're bringing 2 sections of the crowd to a screeching halt. It might not even cover the entirety of the front or back with just 2.

You're going to have to explain a little more why that's a problem. Even if it only covers a portion of the groups, it will force them to slow down. The Goo Bomb itself will keep people from pushing forward over them. The front parts of the pack will reach the doors first and get in, and then the back parts that weren't hit.

Emstar · Jun 22, 2018

Cariyaga said:
You're going to have to explain a little more why that's a problem. Even if it only covers a portion of the groups, it will force them to slow down. The Goo Bomb itself will keep people from pushing forward over them. The front parts of the pack will reach the doors first and get in, and then the back parts that weren't hit.

That's if they don't fall down and people don't just trample them accidentally.

You have to remember they can't see a thing and are quickly becoming intoxicated. If we cement portions of the crowd to the floor while they're in the mist ut will make things worse.

Vecht · Jun 22, 2018

Cariyaga said:
move into the mist

Cariyaga said:
Immediately afterwards, Hazou drops down INTO the front of the mist

Cariyaga said:
The worst that could happen would be that a Wakahisa caught us when we dropped into the alcoholic mist

YOU MEAN INCLUDING THE ONE THAT ALMOST KILLED US?

...

[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

Better than the alternative.

Tua · Jun 22, 2018

[X] Action Plan: Escape So We Can All Go To The Tournament Together

Goals:

Get away undetected, avoid possible ambushes and link up with our allies
Do not get involved in the stampede, let proctors handle it

Methods:

From our current position, and relative to the linked map, substitute to the left/West and immediately go underground with Hiding like a Mole (incurring mild consequences for going over CP capacity)
- If there is furniture right on top of the Earth, use that as substitute target (spend FP as necessary). Otherwise use PMYF to sub with.
Be on guard for ambushes; we are low on chakra and isolated. Move underground to avoid detection and move North and then around the house to get where our allies are (IIRC that was NE?)
Link up with SuperTeam Leaf, stay in character while giving a report similar to this: "You guys were right to stay here and let me check out this weird heat wave. Apparently, someone tried to gather people up and scare them with explosives! It is a good thing that I let myself be convinced by some of the guests (Shirotsuma the Harlot) to leave before the explosion went off. I hope the rest of the people are alright though."
- Keep an eye on Akane, make sure she understands from the subtext that this was not us who caused the stampede. We may have to talk to her later in private in case she is upset with us regardless.
If we can, get some privacy with Keiko and Noburi to discuss the following: We want to buy into the information both Shikamaru and Hinata have. If they agree, come up with the terms we would find acceptable (i.e. what they think is fine paying (probably seals, but how many etc).
Approach Shikamaru and Hinata to ask them if they would be willing to share information of people they know as ninja and/or their secret roles with all of us. (We should have built up some goodwill by now with all of the team for always coming through, sharing more than the required info and being honest about things.). Some arguments to use:
- Stress how important a full Leaf tournament would be for the Village. We would show immense strength right after losing the previous Hokage.
- We have shown our willingness for cooperation and our word is trustworthy. If Shikamaru/Hinata come through, we will help the whole of STL to do as well in the next exam so we can ensure we get to the tournament stage together (unless there are obvious restrictions like being a 1vs1 or team battle between our teams).
- Of course we are perfectly fine not being top, just as long as we are in the top 12
- If they decline, be a good sport about it and don't start an argument.

Reasoning:

Tua said:
My take on things, condensed in one place:

- I strongly believe that even if we are caught running, that we will not be disqualified or lose 30k points. Even if they tried to, we could appeal since they have zero proof that we caused either the environment to heat up, the explosion of the tipserator. Still, we should try to avoid detection anyway just to make things easier.

- Instead of going to the hedge maze as an alibi or into the house, he will go underground and go directly to where his allies are; we are going the low on chakra so getting into a fight by being isolated (hedge maze) or getting lost in the chaos (house) are things we need to avoid at all costs. Even if we should win the combat, there is no guarantee it will be a 1 on 1 thing or that we can do so without making noise (another explosion coming from the place we are in is going to look bad).

- I propose Hazo subsitutes himself with furniture on top of the earth to the left side (with reference the previously linked map), then use the Mole jutsu and tunnels to his allies; he will incur a mild consequence for overdrawing chakra (5%) but I think it is worth it.

- Proctors should be able to handle most of the stampede themselves; even if not, we have no obligation to help them and risk being blamed for doing this (Why else would we help out and sacrifice our chances of promotion, they would argue; and the more ammunition we give them, the more likely it is that they might get away with a DQ after the appeal).

- Once we reach our allies, stay in character and say something similar to this to communicate what happened: "You guys were right to stay here and let me check out this weird heat wave. Apparently, someone tried to gather people up and scare them with explosives! It is a good thing that I let myself be convinced by some of the guests (Shirotsuma the Harlot) to leave before the explosion went off. I hope the rest of the people are alright though."

With the most immediate concerns out of the way, I propose we talk to Shikamaru (&Hinata, I guess?) and ask him whether he wants to cut us into the scoring and which concessions we would have to make to end up in the Top 9 (that being all of the Super Team Leaf).

- We should have built some goodwill by now, shown we value cooperation etc.

- Argue that Leaf making a good show in the Exams is going to go over well.

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2018

Drasky said:
Yeah, disqualification of everyone from leaf is political suicide for Mist. So no there isn't even a chance of an incident like this happening even if they can find a way to implicate us.

This incident is being overblown more than it deserves to be, when it is not that big of a deal.

We also killed a whole ship in canon. Also what deaths? At most people will end up with bruises and some broken limbs. Death at this point is very unlikely. The swamp exam had a much higher chance of causing someone's death compared to this.

I'm feeling that there is some paranoia going on that is a bit excessive.

Velorien said:
Note, however, that everything changes when the crowd hits the closed doors. At that point, the people at the front are going to be crushed by the waves of people behind them who don't realise that the doors are closed. Even in the best case scenario where the doors get opened, you now have 200 people trying to squeeze through a narrow opening into an entrance corridor which also cannot accommodate that many people.

Also, recall that everyone is blind and increasingly drunk, which doesn't do wonders for "People make the best choices they can based on the information available to them".

Additionally, the doors open outwards. Once there's enough people there, it will be physically impossible to open the doors.

Dictator4Hire · Jun 22, 2018

Velorien said:
Hazō doesn't know. This is his first Chuunin Exam and the situation is unprecedented.

Wait, really? For the entire history of the exams no one has tried before to be "clever" by disrupting the exams for their own or their country's benefit? Surely there has to have been at least one above average idiot causing an international incident before us. Politics basically demands it. Yes there are incentives to prevent gaming the system in such a way, but there should also be a precedent for cleaning up after such a mess to stop further escalation.

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2018

Vecht said:
YOU MEAN INCLUDING THE ONE THAT ALMOST KILLED US?

...

[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

Better than the alternative.

On a mechanical level, it is our 'turn' right now. They may 'see' us with their water sense, but they won't be able to respond by draining us. The primary risk is that a proctor wakahisa notices.

Drasky · Jun 22, 2018

MMKII said:
So is violating the neutrality of the exams.

My dude, Mist already violated the exam repeatedly when it came to us. What is one more drop in the ocean.

Anderkent · Jun 22, 2018

Cariyaga said:
Additionally, the doors open outwards. Once there's enough people there, it will be physically impossible to open the doors.

This is not a problem because there isn't anything that's funnelling people towards the door, so all the force just easily distributes to the side rather than squeezing people in. I.e. people bounce off the jam, instead of squeezing the crowd. There's a reason why all the dangerous stampedes happen on getting out of a building / area.

Actually @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail - is it possible for us to get a GM ruling on how dangerous the stampede is / seems to Hazou? It seems like IC we should have a pretty good picture / expectation of what will happen, but the hivemind seems pretty split between 'people will die crushed against the wall / trampled' and 'people will at worst trip or get kicked once or twice'.

So we're discussing that a lot, in part trying to convince each other, in part trying to convince the GMs; but it seems like IC Hazou should just know what happens and we should plan about that. I personally can't see how anyone could ge tseriously hurt, but if we get ar uling saying so I'll just drop it.

fiirofa · Jun 22, 2018

[X] Nope.jpg

[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

Vecht · Jun 22, 2018

Cariyaga said:
On a mechanical level, it is our 'turn' right now. They may 'see' us with their water sense, but they won't be able to respond by draining us. The primary risk is that a proctor wakahisa notices.

Regardless of anything else, your plan completely neglects agency of anyone present. It doesn't matter what our motives are; tossing goo bombs -- or anything else that noticable -- from a clearly viewable vantage point -- INTO A CROWD OF PANICKED NINJA -- is not going to work out well for us in the moment.

Your plan might as well have Hazou blowing himself up with explosives.

Inferno Vulpix · Jun 22, 2018

The challenge: Fight each other in a deadly swamp for points. Ambush them, track them, punch them in the face, be as ruthless as you want!
Our response: Let's build a fort, draw our own seals, and avoid combat while peacefully trading with other contestants.

The challenge: Defend a civilian merchant from all who would cause them harm, including your fellow contestants, as they seek to earn a profit in the Mist marketplace!
Our response: Okay sure, but we'll just legalize drugs in Mist first real quick.

The challenge: Pretend to be a civilian, disguising your own ninja talents while catching others as ninjas!
Our response: In our defense, causing a stampede that disqualified pretty much everyone other than us wasn't part of the plan.

Velorien · Jun 22, 2018

faflec said:
Oh yeah @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail How many Zones are between Hazou and the mansion doors (are they in the same Zone, or...)? Are there proctors nearby that appear to be moving to the doors (e.g., to open them)?

Hazō is in the same zone. He can't see the proctors, so cannot comment on their movements. Also, the update ended before they had a chance to move.

Anderkent said:
Actually @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail - is it possible for us to get a GM ruling on how dangerous the stampede is / seems to Hazou? It seems like IC we should have a pretty good picture / expectation of what will happen, but the hivemind seems pretty split between 'people will die crushed against the wall / trampled' and 'people will at worst trip or get kicked once or twice'.

So we're discussing that a lot, in part trying to convince each other, in part trying to convince the GMs; but it seems like IC Hazou should just know what happens and we should plan about that. I personally can't see how anyone could ge tseriously hurt, but if we get ar uling saying so I'll just drop it.

The question is how Hazō would know how dangerous the stampede is. He can't see anything of what's happening, and he has no reason to know more about stampede mechanics than you or I. If anything, living in a world with a much smaller population that has fewer places/reasons to congregate in large numbers, he should know less.

Immortal Lurker · Jun 22, 2018

So the official story should be that Shikamaru realized that everyone was being herded, and convinced leaf to not do it. We were sent as a scout, because our identity was assumed compromised.

ContextBot · Jun 22, 2018

Inferno Vulpix said:
The challenge: Fight each other in a deadly swamp for points. Ambush them, track them, punch them in the face, be as ruthless as you want!
Our response: Let's build a fort, draw our own seals, and avoid combat while peacefully trading with other contestants.

The challenge: Defend a civilian merchant from all who would cause them harm, including your fellow contestants, as they seek to earn a profit in the Mist marketplace!
Our response: Okay sure, but we'll just legalize drugs in Mist first real quick.

The challenge: Pretend to be a civilian, disguising your own ninja talents while catching others as ninjas!
Our response: In our defense, causing a stampede that disqualified pretty much everyone other than us wasn't part of the plan.

Hazou: 'madness and genius are two sides of the same coin'

Thread/Hivemind : 'too many cooks spoil the broth'

Cariyaga · Jun 22, 2018

We do actually have an alibi for staying away from the crowd though: We were very obviously being herded.

faflec · Jun 22, 2018

Inferno Vulpix said:
Our response: In our defense, causing a stampede that disqualified pretty much everyone other than us wasn't part of the plan.

The drunken riot, on the other hand...

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Handsome Gentleperson

Dude

The Shining One

Handsome Gentleperson

The Shining One

鸡肉面条汤

Handsome Gentleperson

Handsome Gentleperson

Dude

Handsome Gentleperson