The Lighthouses and the Pit (Fantasy Mage Quest)
- Thread starter occipitallobe
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- PA
[X] You Spat, Full of Fury
[X] Executing the Rebels
Swallow seethed in rage at this task. Okay, fine, don't risk yourself, we're short on mages, yadda, yadda. She got that lesson loud and clear when Shaina died. But this? Wasn't this worse? Sure, she couldn't exactly say these Rebels should be spared the consequences of their actions...
But at the same time...This was valuable time she could spent trying to improve. Getting a better grasp on her powers or sharpening her skill. Anything! But not this brutal slaughter, this waste of life!
"You jerk!" Shouts newly orphaned child, who then throws a stone at her.
Swallow simply stepped back from the corpse, letting the stone sail through the air in front of her. The gaurds would grab and restrain the child, and she would have one more kill to make before she was done for the day.
EDIT: My slander aside, I'd like to point out that while Jagged found that execution necessary (and probably lumps us in with Grand Axe-I could see him making a simmilar mistake.) Dagger and Axe veto'd the idea and are probably pissed with him.
That said, same way we shouldn't risk ourselves is much the same reason Jagged is liable to get away with it-frankly, all hands are needed, and even if he's a jerk, he's still a useful fighter. Likewise, as we might be all too prone to throwing ourselves into the thick of things, we need to do our best to stay alive.
[X] Executing the Rebels
Swallow seethed in rage at this task. Okay, fine, don't risk yourself, we're short on mages, yadda, yadda. She got that lesson loud and clear when Shaina died. But this? Wasn't this worse? Sure, she couldn't exactly say these Rebels should be spared the consequences of their actions...
But at the same time...This was valuable time she could spent trying to improve. Getting a better grasp on her powers or sharpening her skill. Anything! But not this brutal slaughter, this waste of life!
"You jerk!" Shouts newly orphaned child, who then throws a stone at her.
Swallow simply stepped back from the corpse, letting the stone sail through the air in front of her. The gaurds would grab and restrain the child, and she would have one more kill to make before she was done for the day.
EDIT: My slander aside, I'd like to point out that while Jagged found that execution necessary (and probably lumps us in with Grand Axe-I could see him making a simmilar mistake.) Dagger and Axe veto'd the idea and are probably pissed with him.
That said, same way we shouldn't risk ourselves is much the same reason Jagged is liable to get away with it-frankly, all hands are needed, and even if he's a jerk, he's still a useful fighter. Likewise, as we might be all too prone to throwing ourselves into the thick of things, we need to do our best to stay alive.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
[X] You Spat, Full of Fury
[X] Executing the Rebels
Actually, I don't understand the point.
Actions have consequences, yes, but Shaina's death is not a consequence of Swallow's actions but solely of Jagged Edge's. The repercussion he objects to is not the death of some random crippled girl, but of a valuable mage, so if he wanted to show us the likely consequences he should have bashed his own head in. Also Swallow didn't risk her life for self-satisfaction but to save the merchants. Jagged Edge is full of shit.
[X] Executing the Rebels
Actually, I don't understand the point.
Actions have consequences, yes, but Shaina's death is not a consequence of Swallow's actions but solely of Jagged Edge's. The repercussion he objects to is not the death of some random crippled girl, but of a valuable mage, so if he wanted to show us the likely consequences he should have bashed his own head in. Also Swallow didn't risk her life for self-satisfaction but to save the merchants. Jagged Edge is full of shit.
- Location
- PA
He's being a dick, as evidenced by Dagger's disapproval alongside Axe, in my opinion. The nasty thing is, he's kind of right-this is a Grimdark world, and we can't take unneccessary risks...To that end, next time the thread can vote for a risky play like that and tactical write-ins are a thing to improve the odds of success remind me to step in-we went in with the plan of 'we have a fate point, it'll be okay!' and had no write-in whatsoever. Naturally, this translates to Swallow getting Owned and eating nasty reprecussions like this nasty incident darkening her heart, or however it is magic works. It means we're that much less likely to live if we go for another Lighthouse, I think. But something else I'd like to point out?
She was a cripple. As in the kind of folks we would have been chasing out under the []Driving out the Failures vote. For that matter, while he did do some sort of paralyzing trick to keep us from acting, he also undid that so that there was no lasting harm. Plus...This might just genuinely be a legit punishment for dumb mages. Fulbad was only spared because he had enough importance to not be killed, which I see as somewhat vindicating that vote to all-in on saving the Merchants.
Either way, I'm very much of the mindset that we need to start thinking with, if not 40K logic, then at least the idea that we can't save everyone. Even if trying CAN work, it's the kind of thing that can get us killed from more pragmatic types like Jagged coming in and smacking us about to make sure we get it straight not to do that.
- Location
- Germany
I get the idea that Swallow is too valuable and important to risk her life so recklessly. That was the point Grand Axe made, and I even agree with him.
However Jagged Edge claimed that he wanted to show Swallow the consequences of her actions and I consider that complete bullshit.
Kiling Shaina might deter Swallow from such irresponsible actions by operant conditioning but otherwise it was just meaningless cruelty.
However Jagged Edge claimed that he wanted to show Swallow the consequences of her actions and I consider that complete bullshit.
Kiling Shaina might deter Swallow from such irresponsible actions by operant conditioning but otherwise it was just meaningless cruelty.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, the meaning is that it hurts us and may act as a future deterrence but, considering how little he values her life, that seems a worthwhile end in and of itself. I guess it could also be seen as a lesson in the value of lives though.
- Location
- Straya
Essentially, the point is that someone valuable could have died, which in the long run means more deaths. Jagged Edge sort of just went down the list of who he could reasonably kill, and decided to kill someone who had failed to gain powers because chances are that they would die anyway, and didn't really contribute a whole lot the city's defense or prosperity.
Part of it is desperation. Under ordinary circumstances, the city's defences would be better manned, and mistakes would be less likely to have consequences. Jagged Edge is trying to communicate "if you die, more people are likely to die overall", but trying to condense that lesson down rather than letting Swallow become harder over time. He is not the most gifted educator.
The thing to keep in mind here is that these are extraordinary times. The majority of the mages are gone from the city, the defences are weak, and those who remain are hardly the cream of the crop. You have not undergone normal training processes, by any means. Ordinarily, you would probably come to these beliefs to some degree over the long-term. Given that most mages are orphans of one kind or another, they tend to be fairly hostile to those beliefs initially. Straight up brute force indoctrination isn't common.
- Location
- Straya
In addition, I'd like to argue against Driving Out the Failures as it is the most popular choice so far.
Firstly, whatever you choose doesn't change what actually happens. These will take place, it's just a matter of which Swallow will assist with. So simply a matter of what Swallow prefers among three bad options.
Secondly, the other two options are against people who have had chances so to speak. The nearby settlements are always given the diplomatic option to leave first, and are usually offered major escorts if they take that up. It's rare for a settlement to refuse, but when they do they draw Darklings in, and make it that much more likely Madalgia comes under attack. So there is some moral culpability there.
Likewise, executing rebels is unpleasant, but these are people have to some degree committed crimes. Maybe they are very minor crimes, and nothing that would warrant execution in any reasonable world, but they bear some degree of guilt however minor.
Conversely, removing those who have failed from the city does not bloody your hands much directly, but you are nonetheless condemning many people to die who have committed no crime other than failing to gain magical powers.
Firstly, whatever you choose doesn't change what actually happens. These will take place, it's just a matter of which Swallow will assist with. So simply a matter of what Swallow prefers among three bad options.
Secondly, the other two options are against people who have had chances so to speak. The nearby settlements are always given the diplomatic option to leave first, and are usually offered major escorts if they take that up. It's rare for a settlement to refuse, but when they do they draw Darklings in, and make it that much more likely Madalgia comes under attack. So there is some moral culpability there.
Likewise, executing rebels is unpleasant, but these are people have to some degree committed crimes. Maybe they are very minor crimes, and nothing that would warrant execution in any reasonable world, but they bear some degree of guilt however minor.
Conversely, removing those who have failed from the city does not bloody your hands much directly, but you are nonetheless condemning many people to die who have committed no crime other than failing to gain magical powers.
I consider it a major backfire on his part.
Because Axe had her sold on the idea...and then in comes Edge to sabotage the whole effort. And then add a punishment duty basically designed to drive in that yes, she has no interest staying
We're very unlikely to want stay now.
Personal goal is now, to finish learning all the basics and then leave.
- Location
- Germany
Not Really, they just live in a fucked up World and are 5 Minutes Away from having a World Ending scenario, while Swallow is basically a soldier who just ignored the Chain of Command and disobeyed direct Orders given to her
While what happened here was a rather unusual way to get the Point across, the fact remains that they are justified in getting the Point across
- Location
- scrabbling
Personally I don't care so much about Edge's 'crawling in my craaaaaawl' demonstration. Sure I dislike him as a person, but he made it pretty clear that going this far is exceptional and not approved of by others in the organization. Madalgia itself is a traumatized nation prone to flipping out, sure, but Swallow can still do the most good as part of a group.
To be Hopeful does not mean to turn away from reality, or to run away from something you don't like; no, to the contrary, to be truly hopeful you have to understand the situation in all of its ugliness and still want something better anyway. Otherwise you're just ignorant and naïve.
Barondoctor
The things I chase come to me.
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Change the system or leave the system?
Compassionate and Stubborn says fix the system. Save the city's soul, save the world.
Compassionate and Stubborn says fix the system. Save the city's soul, save the world.
ChildishChimera
A umbran summon
- Location
- New York
I mean things are borked cause everyone's stuck in shadow Land were basically stuck on a skeleton crew for city
[X] You Lied, Stubbornly
[X] Driving Out The Failures
[X] Driving Out The Failures
As in I have no interest in sharing a city with him for the foreseeable future. Maybe an accident happens to him. Maybe we leave. Either would be acceptable.
Barondoctor
The things I chase come to me.
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
I really don't think we've reached the skill level to "make it look like an accident". We might be able to kill him while he sleeps and then do something about his body, but then we'd probably have to leave the city anyway.
Also that would be against at least one of our virtues I'd think.
Also that would be against at least one of our virtues I'd think.
- Location
- PA
It's called the Traitor's Price to kill another mage, and it's a major crime to do so unless it was in self-defense. Frankly, as a Bladebound? We're not getting away with that, especially with how defensively specced we are, if for no other reason than I doubt we'd be unable to hamstring the guy and then make good our excape.
As in, literal accident. Not 'accident'.
- Location
- Straya
Inserted tally
Quest Rewards!
- Location
- Straya
You hated him. That was the driving thought that ran through your mind. How dare he do this, how dare he! For a moment you are tempted to pick up your sword and cut him down where he stands. You restrain yourself though, you know that this would not work. Jagged Edge is faster, stronger and more able than you are at the moment.
He dismisses you, and you leave the hall.
Outside Grand Axe is waiting for you. He looks down at you with pity in his eyes, and you feel like screaming at him.
"I'm sorry, Swallow. But-"
You look at him, feeling contempt. He knew this was going to happen, and he just waited and let it happen. Why didn't he help? Why didn't he... Tears start streaming down your face, and Grand Axe wraps you in his arms. You struggle for a moment, and then wrap your arms back around him, sobbing.
"I'm going to kill him. I'm going to kill him! He- he- fuck him!"
"I know. I know. I'm sorry. I know."
He guides you down the hall, and into another room. A small library, with comfortable places to sit. Two large stuffed cushions sit on the floor, and he sits you down on top of one. You saw for a while longer, unable to properly understand or process what just happened. You accepted it, admittedly. But that was very different to processing it. One of your trainers, one of your mentors had brought in a girl, much like yourself, different in only that she had not gained magic. Then he killed her in front of you.
It didn't make sense. Just for rescuing some merchants? You felt your fury mount again, followed by more tears.
Several hours pass before you are finally ready to talk. Grand Axe is there the entire time, simply waiting and listening.
"Why?"
Grand Axe looks down you, seated on the other cushion. His broad face twists for a moment in thought.
"Jagged Edge is one of the most senior mages left within the Guildhall. His reasons are most likely those he gave to you. You are valuable, and if you risk your own life, you also risk the lives of others. I suspect he wanted to show you what that looked like. He…"
His voice trails off.
"That doesn't make any sense, why kill the girl? Why so cruelly?"
Grand Axe sighs.
"I disagree with this method of teaching. I believe in time, everyone comes to the same conclusions. If we are to survive, we must be hard. Nonetheless, I do not think myself that you mages should be taught in such a way. Still… It is not my place to make these decisions. I agree that young mages should assist in the city's less pleasant tasks, but but this was not out of necessity. Now, have you given thought as to what you might prefer to do?"
You had.
"I will drive out the people like Shaina. Like my mother. Like I would have been, without magic."
You tremble. It made the most sense though. While it was cruel, you could do little good elsewhere. Here at the very least, you could do some good. Maybe sneak them a little food, or at least make sure you don't hurt them while driving them out. They are unlikely to survive, but you could least not contribute to their deaths more than you had to.
Grand Axe nods, his eyes suddenly hard.
"Do you have any thoughts about being kind? Saving their lives, or hiding them away within the city? What are you looking to do, Swallow?"
You look back at him.
"I will do as I have been told. As I just said."
He frowns.
"Know that rebelling here will bring nobody joy, and more pain not just for yourself, but for those you may assist."
You nod.
"Still, is there anything I can do Grand Axe? Am I able to help them in any way? Give them food? Give them equipment? Even if it is from my own pocket, what will not see them punished?"
Grand Axe thinks. His frown deepens, and he stretches out along the pillow, squashing it more thoroughly beneath him.
"Anything from your own purse is fine, though you have little of that. Anything you choose to do, as long as they leave the city is fine. Within reason, of course. On that note, there is one thing I meant to mention to you. Do you remember the chests those merchants were hauling to the city?"
You nod.
"They were artifacts, shards of power from the Pit. I am told Spellthieves can use them, replicating spells they have already stolen. We can't use them, unfortunately. In recognition of our assistance, the Guild has offered a small bounty. Eight of the shards will be yours. Alternatively, you could trade them in for coinage. In that case, you would have the money required to assist those people you are forcing to leave."
Grand Axe stands suddenly.
"Of course, how you choose to go about it is up to you."
[ ] Sell Them, Aid the People
Jagged Edge demands that you live in a harsh world. You accept this, but you do not accept the world must always be harsh. Sell these shards you have acquired, take the money to give it to those you will drive the city. Give them food, tools, and weapons to defend themselves with. Perhaps they will die, but you will do your very best to ensure they live. Accept the world in all of its cruelties, but do not accept that it must remain cruel.
[ ] Keep Them
Only a fool disdains material wealth. All that he is a cruel, contemptible man, Jagged Edge has understood the truth of the matter. These people will die. They will die because they must, because any waste of resources on them places the city in greater danger. It is not hatred that drives this, but practicality. To spend your resources in this way may result in a few surviving for a little while longer, but it will weaken you in the long term. Always taking risks, always using up your resources to aid those in need feels good, but you must weigh the needs of the moment against the needs of the future.
He dismisses you, and you leave the hall.
Outside Grand Axe is waiting for you. He looks down at you with pity in his eyes, and you feel like screaming at him.
"I'm sorry, Swallow. But-"
You look at him, feeling contempt. He knew this was going to happen, and he just waited and let it happen. Why didn't he help? Why didn't he... Tears start streaming down your face, and Grand Axe wraps you in his arms. You struggle for a moment, and then wrap your arms back around him, sobbing.
"I'm going to kill him. I'm going to kill him! He- he- fuck him!"
"I know. I know. I'm sorry. I know."
He guides you down the hall, and into another room. A small library, with comfortable places to sit. Two large stuffed cushions sit on the floor, and he sits you down on top of one. You saw for a while longer, unable to properly understand or process what just happened. You accepted it, admittedly. But that was very different to processing it. One of your trainers, one of your mentors had brought in a girl, much like yourself, different in only that she had not gained magic. Then he killed her in front of you.
It didn't make sense. Just for rescuing some merchants? You felt your fury mount again, followed by more tears.
Several hours pass before you are finally ready to talk. Grand Axe is there the entire time, simply waiting and listening.
"Why?"
Grand Axe looks down you, seated on the other cushion. His broad face twists for a moment in thought.
"Jagged Edge is one of the most senior mages left within the Guildhall. His reasons are most likely those he gave to you. You are valuable, and if you risk your own life, you also risk the lives of others. I suspect he wanted to show you what that looked like. He…"
His voice trails off.
"That doesn't make any sense, why kill the girl? Why so cruelly?"
Grand Axe sighs.
"I disagree with this method of teaching. I believe in time, everyone comes to the same conclusions. If we are to survive, we must be hard. Nonetheless, I do not think myself that you mages should be taught in such a way. Still… It is not my place to make these decisions. I agree that young mages should assist in the city's less pleasant tasks, but but this was not out of necessity. Now, have you given thought as to what you might prefer to do?"
You had.
"I will drive out the people like Shaina. Like my mother. Like I would have been, without magic."
You tremble. It made the most sense though. While it was cruel, you could do little good elsewhere. Here at the very least, you could do some good. Maybe sneak them a little food, or at least make sure you don't hurt them while driving them out. They are unlikely to survive, but you could least not contribute to their deaths more than you had to.
Grand Axe nods, his eyes suddenly hard.
"Do you have any thoughts about being kind? Saving their lives, or hiding them away within the city? What are you looking to do, Swallow?"
You look back at him.
"I will do as I have been told. As I just said."
He frowns.
"Know that rebelling here will bring nobody joy, and more pain not just for yourself, but for those you may assist."
You nod.
"Still, is there anything I can do Grand Axe? Am I able to help them in any way? Give them food? Give them equipment? Even if it is from my own pocket, what will not see them punished?"
Grand Axe thinks. His frown deepens, and he stretches out along the pillow, squashing it more thoroughly beneath him.
"Anything from your own purse is fine, though you have little of that. Anything you choose to do, as long as they leave the city is fine. Within reason, of course. On that note, there is one thing I meant to mention to you. Do you remember the chests those merchants were hauling to the city?"
You nod.
"They were artifacts, shards of power from the Pit. I am told Spellthieves can use them, replicating spells they have already stolen. We can't use them, unfortunately. In recognition of our assistance, the Guild has offered a small bounty. Eight of the shards will be yours. Alternatively, you could trade them in for coinage. In that case, you would have the money required to assist those people you are forcing to leave."
Grand Axe stands suddenly.
"Of course, how you choose to go about it is up to you."
[ ] Sell Them, Aid the People
Jagged Edge demands that you live in a harsh world. You accept this, but you do not accept the world must always be harsh. Sell these shards you have acquired, take the money to give it to those you will drive the city. Give them food, tools, and weapons to defend themselves with. Perhaps they will die, but you will do your very best to ensure they live. Accept the world in all of its cruelties, but do not accept that it must remain cruel.
[ ] Keep Them
Only a fool disdains material wealth. All that he is a cruel, contemptible man, Jagged Edge has understood the truth of the matter. These people will die. They will die because they must, because any waste of resources on them places the city in greater danger. It is not hatred that drives this, but practicality. To spend your resources in this way may result in a few surviving for a little while longer, but it will weaken you in the long term. Always taking risks, always using up your resources to aid those in need feels good, but you must weigh the needs of the moment against the needs of the future.