Dragon Ball: After the End
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Blame the 4th his idea and he would know the most about Dragons.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
She doesn't have to screw with us very much here - all she has to do is take a look at our mind while she's doing the working, which is much more plausible than sabotaging us in the middle of a fight, and she'll know we have a conspiracy lined up against her.
Of course I can't believe the fact that we would be letting Master Mind Sorcerer Dandeer into our head is even relevant, since the plan also calls for us to put in our mind a psychic so powerful he could stand up to 4 Golden Oozarus and have a very strong chance of winning almost entirely on the back of that psychic power. The same psychic power which let him read the minds of a bunch of people from space.
deadcrystal
Slaaneshi Cultist
- Location
- The Warp
I just really don't think Sealing the Dragon in Kakara (Or Sealing it at all tbh) is really a realistically viable plan.
If we split it into three possible kinds of Seals.
- Sealing as was done to Jarron (No way Kakara would be up for this)
- Sealing into Kakara, using her as a prison (Ethically better, somewhat, but sticking a psychic dragon in her head is ridic-stupid)
- Sealing the Dragon's power away only. (Defs the ethically best, but wow, super unlikely to have a chance of working)
Any of the Sealing plans share a number of rather major potential issues.
- The Exiles understand shit all about the Dragon's Psychic powers and how it can use them, making a Seal rather dubious
- The Dragon has some seriously weird thing going on with its Ki. It isn't as powerful as a Golden Oozaru, and is much much weaker than Spirit Kakara, in terms of pure power output. But given its full power beam spam it either has a ridiculously large Ki pool or something stranger going on, like infinite stamina.
- The Dragon is sitting at 900mill, much stronger than Jarron was when the Seal didn't work on him (Part was latent Sorcery yes, but part was the Super Saiyan power boost)
- The Exiles know almost nothing about Dragons and how they work. Their history includes all of like, 3/4 dragons, most knowledge of which was lost and not all that detailed in the first place, and moreover this Dragon is a completely different kind of Dragon than any of the ones they know anything about. Masques were designed to work on Saiyans. I'd doubt the Sorcerors would even be able to shove an ad-hoc one on a human let alone whatever the heck a Dragon is.
When it comes to other plans...
- IT to the afterlife where the ancestors could deal with it would be fantastic!...If Kakara could do it. Which she explicitly can't.
- IT to the far side of the galaxy has two problems. 1. Moves Kakara away from Garenhuld meaning she likely loses Spirit Saiyan. 2. It saves people locally, but that's all, the Dragon will keep being genocidal, it just won't be killing people that Kakara knows personally. Kakara wouldn't be okay with that.
- Beating it up till it surrenders...it has no respect for life, the very second Kakara drops out of Spirit Saiyan it would just kill her and resume being evil.
- Showing it All Life...It's been made pretty clear that the insight for Spirit Bomb has to be discovered for yourself, I don't think you can just shove the enlightenment into it, or else way more people would be running around with Spirit Bomb.
I...really don't see a way out of this other than killing it. Not one that doesn't carry an unjustifiably high level of risk.
If we split it into three possible kinds of Seals.
- Sealing as was done to Jarron (No way Kakara would be up for this)
- Sealing into Kakara, using her as a prison (Ethically better, somewhat, but sticking a psychic dragon in her head is ridic-stupid)
- Sealing the Dragon's power away only. (Defs the ethically best, but wow, super unlikely to have a chance of working)
Any of the Sealing plans share a number of rather major potential issues.
- The Exiles understand shit all about the Dragon's Psychic powers and how it can use them, making a Seal rather dubious
- The Dragon has some seriously weird thing going on with its Ki. It isn't as powerful as a Golden Oozaru, and is much much weaker than Spirit Kakara, in terms of pure power output. But given its full power beam spam it either has a ridiculously large Ki pool or something stranger going on, like infinite stamina.
- The Dragon is sitting at 900mill, much stronger than Jarron was when the Seal didn't work on him (Part was latent Sorcery yes, but part was the Super Saiyan power boost)
- The Exiles know almost nothing about Dragons and how they work. Their history includes all of like, 3/4 dragons, most knowledge of which was lost and not all that detailed in the first place, and moreover this Dragon is a completely different kind of Dragon than any of the ones they know anything about. Masques were designed to work on Saiyans. I'd doubt the Sorcerors would even be able to shove an ad-hoc one on a human let alone whatever the heck a Dragon is.
When it comes to other plans...
- IT to the afterlife where the ancestors could deal with it would be fantastic!...If Kakara could do it. Which she explicitly can't.
- IT to the far side of the galaxy has two problems. 1. Moves Kakara away from Garenhuld meaning she likely loses Spirit Saiyan. 2. It saves people locally, but that's all, the Dragon will keep being genocidal, it just won't be killing people that Kakara knows personally. Kakara wouldn't be okay with that.
- Beating it up till it surrenders...it has no respect for life, the very second Kakara drops out of Spirit Saiyan it would just kill her and resume being evil.
- Showing it All Life...It's been made pretty clear that the insight for Spirit Bomb has to be discovered for yourself, I don't think you can just shove the enlightenment into it, or else way more people would be running around with Spirit Bomb.
I...really don't see a way out of this other than killing it. Not one that doesn't carry an unjustifiably high level of risk.
- Location
- Dual citizen of SV&SB
Yeah, all this sealing stuff is not likely to end well.
Just for the record.
But no, lets make sure that the guy who blew up fifteen planets, has eaten other sayins before and came here explicitly to eat us live. Let's also seal him inside us.
I tried to give a vote that would end with him dead without us actually killing him, turning him over to our father for judgement.
Since, you know, we are still Scion, not head of our household.
But eh. As others have said, let's stick the psychic into our minds. What could possibly go wrong?
Just for the record.
But no, lets make sure that the guy who blew up fifteen planets, has eaten other sayins before and came here explicitly to eat us live. Let's also seal him inside us.
I tried to give a vote that would end with him dead without us actually killing him, turning him over to our father for judgement.
Since, you know, we are still Scion, not head of our household.
But eh. As others have said, let's stick the psychic into our minds. What could possibly go wrong?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I agree we're probably going to kill it, but I also agree that we should at least examine other (not suicidal) possibilities. If we beat it up and hold it down, the sorcerers could at least have a go - and if they fail that roll, we'll probably have to kill it, if only because the alternative is either it flying off to destroy more worlds full of innocent people , or it trying to kill Garenhuld anyway.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
[x]Hold down the dragon. Ask the sorcerers "Can you turn him into dragon balls"
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- Location
- Somewhere
None of those WoG talk about its interaction with psychic.
The dragon has shown he is able to control ki with his mind. It's not that big of a leap to assume he can do the same with telepathy.
And y'all are assuming that even if he understood the implications behind All Is One, it would matter to him. I don't understand why you think him knowing we're all part of a single system would stop him from destroying its components.
The benefits just don't outweigh the risks.
Again, if we can squeeze a wish out of this guy we could totally wish for him to be less of a huge jerk.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think Gohan already said he's not a wishing dragon - his proportions are all wrong. The "can we turn him into dragonballs" vote is more of a just-in-case idea, and also hilarious.
Us repeatedly punching him in his dumb lizard face?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The fact that if he so much as twitches in their direction we'll be put in a position where either he dies or the sorcerers do, and that's a much easier moral problem for Kakara?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It just occurred to me that not only did we pull off the biggest Genki Dama in history, a move which is reputed to only be usable by the pure of heart, but we then took that power and went Spirit Saiyan with it without going berserk and losing control - a feat clearly only attainable by someone even purer of heart than that. If you're a Saiyan who believes being pure of heart is a requirement (and it is, sort of) then we're demonstrably the most virtuous person in Saiyan history. We're going to be a goddamn saint even amongst the ones who aren't Ancestor Cultists!
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Into what, "Mad With Power"?
...You know, that's actually surprisingly tempting, but I don't want what's probably going to be our crowning moment of glory for a very long time screwed with at all.
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- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
- Location
- Getting Somewhere
- Pronouns
- She/Hers
Updating my vote:
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then hand him off to your head of house to determine his fate.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then hand him off to your head of house to determine his fate.
Tickle harder.
You forgot the tickles.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Right, time to vote.
[] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[] If he refuses, try and seal him within yourself. You'll be his prison, warden and guard.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
[X] Beat Dazarel like a drum until he is no longer able to pose a credible threat, preferably by beating him into unconsciousness.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
[X] Tickles!
[><] Seal him in a human masque with his memories but without his powers
-[><] Have him go to school with you
[] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[] If he refuses, try and seal him within yourself. You'll be his prison, warden and guard.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
[X] Beat Dazarel like a drum until he is no longer able to pose a credible threat, preferably by beating him into unconsciousness.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
[X] Tickles!
[><] Seal him in a human masque with his memories but without his powers
-[><] Have him go to school with you
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- Location
- California
I still think sealing the Dragon inside ourselves can work. We know that Sealing magic is powerful enough to hobble very powerful beings, since Dandeer was able to use it on her husband and son. I honestly do think that if we have all the sorcerer's here working as one, we can safely lock the dragon up inside us, while also locking down it's psy abilities. We know it's possible to seal away power like that, and provided we render the Dragon incapable of interfering during the sealing it should be a safe enough process.
I'm not saying it's an idea without risks. We would be sticking an ancient and powerful creatures that is more than a little evil inside our selves. Kakarka would spend the rest of her days dealing with that. But I honestly think she can deal with it. It can try to convince her to kill and rampage, but I definitely feel she has the moral fortitude to not do so, especially after the epiphany of All Is One.
There is the danger of what happens when she dies, but even if there isn't some way to link the Dragon to our life-force so that it dies with us, we will frankly have quite a long time to plan for that eventuality.
It's not the safest plan, that's just killing it. But I honestly do think it's worth trying.
And hell, if it turns out that the Sorcerer's don't think they can do it safely, then it's still unconscious or whatever and we can come up with a new plan.
I want us to take this because to me, it feels like the most Kakara plan, and because it seems like it will have the most interesting and epic story implications. And in the end, that's what this is. A story. So why not do the interesting thing?
I'm not saying it's an idea without risks. We would be sticking an ancient and powerful creatures that is more than a little evil inside our selves. Kakarka would spend the rest of her days dealing with that. But I honestly think she can deal with it. It can try to convince her to kill and rampage, but I definitely feel she has the moral fortitude to not do so, especially after the epiphany of All Is One.
There is the danger of what happens when she dies, but even if there isn't some way to link the Dragon to our life-force so that it dies with us, we will frankly have quite a long time to plan for that eventuality.
It's not the safest plan, that's just killing it. But I honestly do think it's worth trying.
And hell, if it turns out that the Sorcerer's don't think they can do it safely, then it's still unconscious or whatever and we can come up with a new plan.
I want us to take this because to me, it feels like the most Kakara plan, and because it seems like it will have the most interesting and epic story implications. And in the end, that's what this is. A story. So why not do the interesting thing?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
All we need to explain why it hasn't already surrendered is physical courage on the dragon's part. I mean, for all it knows, it only has to somehow survive or evade one shot from us at this power level, then WHAM we turn back into a mere golden monkey.
Don't assume your enemy will "never surrender" before you've physically beaten the tar out of them. If they're still bellowing "I HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO FIGHT!" from the deck of their sinking ship, then you have reason to think they won't listen to reason.
Bad idea. Wave off! WAVE OFF!
Carrying supernatural evils around as passengers inside your head is a major liability.
What happens if we multiform? What happens if we project our spirit, which we do routinely? What happens if we get into a fusion at some future time? What happens if we have to put up with the dragon inside our mind giving us nightmares every night for the next ten years in an attempt to coerce and madden us into releasing it? For all we know, any or all of these issues could arise. Not good.
Even if it conferred some kind of power increase, and I am more than a little skeptical of this, I don't think it'd be worth it. We have a lot of 'cleaner' options for power-ups.
Assuming you're not shamelessly exploiting an ability to read the dragon's character sheet (in which case [expletive deleted])... I don't want to gamble on the dragon being significantly weaker-willed than Kakara. I also don't want to gamble on the dragon only ever getting to try to contest our will once. If the dragon gets to try again, even at a major penalty, every time Kakara has a stressful or soul-shaking moment... It's only a matter of time before we slip and let the genie out of the bottle.
Now, if we had a suitable rice cooker around here, I'd be all over that.
I do not oppose this, as a mundivore has no right to complain about being eaten... except that Kakara will want to not kill the dragon.
Also, I'm pretty sure your tickle vote is a joke, but I don't oppose it.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, so this is pretty much the full list of vote choices I support, leading with the one that is mine. I want to emphasize the role of interrogating, the dragon, of forcing it to give a reckoning of itself when comprehensively defeated. This will tell us far more about whether or not we can persuade it, subdue it, seal it, et cetera than anything we can learn now by speculating.
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down. See if sharing the knowledge and sensation that All is One can convince him onto a better path.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[x]Hold down the dragon. Ask the sorcerers "Can you turn him into dragon balls"
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him or something.
[X] Defeat him, then show him how All Is One
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down. See if sharing the knowledge and sensation that All is One can convince him onto a better path.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[x]Hold down the dragon. Ask the sorcerers "Can you turn him into dragon balls"
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down.
--[X] If he refuses, knock him out while you decide what to do with him.
---[X] Ask both the sorcerers and the seers if it's possible to Seal him away (the sorcerer's if it's possible, and the seers to check if they can see if he'll manage to break out).
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The Dragon is an extremely powerful psychic - more powerful than 4 Golden Oozarus pretty much entirely through its' psychic powers. Jaffur is not a good comparison.
Also again, Dandeer would likely take the lead in this since mind magic is her specialisation, and in the unlikely event she didn't fuck with our head she'd only have to take a quick peek and see the conspiracy and things fall apart.