Yes but the option of having him as a depowered dragon we could convert from prison doesn't seem that boring to me and I just don't like the sealing inside ourself because it is pointlessly risky not because it's risky (what do we really stand to gain if we transform in a human container for a dragon that we can't with other means? Plus simple power ups are borings) and I find restricting a living being to be locked away in the mind of its enemy to be morally discutible, at least in prison one can talk to other people and have a physical body to interact with things... dunno might be semantics but prison just seem more fair to me on a gut feeling.
Dragon Ball: After the End
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
Okay, I'm thinking of something a bit different: what if, instead of planning out the aftermath right now, we just beat the crap out of Dazarel right now until he is unconscious/too weak to fight back/otherwise incapable of posing a major threat and then bring in the adults to help us make an informed decision? Something along the lines of:
[X] Beat Dazarel like a drum until he is no longer able to pose a credible threat, preferably by beating him into unconsciousness.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
Same basic direction, but instead of just deciding on a course right now we just bring the ideas up and have informed help with figuring out what will and won't work... and what the best course of action is.
...
Also, is it just me or does this dragon's metaphorical tone of voice sound quite similar to another dragon's: Nico Bolas in the Official MTG Hour of Devestation story posts?
[X] Beat Dazarel like a drum until he is no longer able to pose a credible threat, preferably by beating him into unconsciousness.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
Same basic direction, but instead of just deciding on a course right now we just bring the ideas up and have informed help with figuring out what will and won't work... and what the best course of action is.
...
Also, is it just me or does this dragon's metaphorical tone of voice sound quite similar to another dragon's: Nico Bolas in the Official MTG Hour of Devestation story posts?
Actually, we could see them as well, despite not being able to see magic yet, so they were visible to the naked eye.
- Location
- England, unfortunately.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Holy shit this guy is ABSOLUTELY Nicol freaking Bolas!
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I don't think that even our current biggatons would be enough against him.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
One of my problems against beating up or sealing the dragon is that it's a psychic and until a while ago we didn't even know that psychics existed. Developing a foolproof countermeasure against that is unrealistic, and incredibly risky. This moment is the only time we're winning against the dragon. Once our new transformation wears off, we are unlikely to achieve this again and there is nothing stopping him from pretending to be beaten, only to turn against us the moment we weaken.
I'm not against consulting dad and the sorcerers to see if he can be sealed inside us, and I'm not against trying to convince him to be peaceful, though I doubt the likelihood of the latter. But I'm against unilaterally deciding to let him live.
It's also hypocritical of us, tbh since we've already made an enemy of Dandeer and pretty much decided to let her die after Jaffur get's unsealed. Dandeer has done a lot of things, but she's not a destroyer of worlds and definitely hasn't threatened everything we hold dear. I would prefer to beat him up, and give the decision to our father to kill him, sparring us from having to do the deed ourselves if we need to.
EDIT: On Imprisonment, putting aside escape, he's a fuck-huge dragon with inter-solar travel speed. I don't think we can keep him contained.
EDIT2: Also, I don't want to stall too long. He can breathe in space, we can't. Don't want to pull a Frieza.
I'm not against consulting dad and the sorcerers to see if he can be sealed inside us, and I'm not against trying to convince him to be peaceful, though I doubt the likelihood of the latter. But I'm against unilaterally deciding to let him live.
It's also hypocritical of us, tbh since we've already made an enemy of Dandeer and pretty much decided to let her die after Jaffur get's unsealed. Dandeer has done a lot of things, but she's not a destroyer of worlds and definitely hasn't threatened everything we hold dear. I would prefer to beat him up, and give the decision to our father to kill him, sparring us from having to do the deed ourselves if we need to.
EDIT: On Imprisonment, putting aside escape, he's a fuck-huge dragon with inter-solar travel speed. I don't think we can keep him contained.
EDIT2: Also, I don't want to stall too long. He can breathe in space, we can't. Don't want to pull a Frieza.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
First of all, not that kind of dragon. Dragonballs don't actually seal a dragon inside of them, the dragon is created along the dragonballs. We saw Shenron's model when Kami repaired it after Piccolo killed Shenron and when Dende reactivated the dragonballs.
We know from super that the super dragon balls were created by the dragon god and its dragon with them and that all other dragonballs are based on chips of those the namekian took
Second of all, even if it were that kind of dragon, do you want an intelligent being with a grudge being the one granting wishes? That seems like a good way to end in a Monkey Paw situation.
There's undoubtedly methods to interfere with such things, once they know to do so.
I don't know about you, but I'm trying to arrange for her to live.
yeah, lets not jinks ourself here guys.
Oh hey question for the QM:
If we, for some reason, go with the seal in ourself plan what are the odds we risk another crisis of faith as with the pacifist trait for doing to another what jafur's mother did to her son even if the intent was dfferent than the result?
- Location
- Europe
[X] Beat Dazarel like a drum until he is no longer able to pose a credible threat, preferably by beating him into unconsciousness.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
This isn't just up to us and doing something unilaterally without consulting with people wiser than us is likely to come back and bite us in the ass.
- [X] Once that is done, conference with the adults to figure out what to do with him.
-- [X] Bring up the idea of sealing him, either into a human form or into something/someone else.
This isn't just up to us and doing something unilaterally without consulting with people wiser than us is likely to come back and bite us in the ass.
- Location
- Australia
You're asking him if Kakara has a problem with sending people to prison.Oh hey question for the QM:
If we, for some reason, go with the seal in ourself plan what are the odds we risk another crisis of faith as with the pacifist trait for doing to another what jafur's mother did to her son even if the intent was dfferent than the result?
- Location
- Australia
Thou Shalt Not Kill, dude.
[J] Make him sit in the corner and think about what he's done
- Location
- Austria
Brainwashing into submission is not that different from merely killing. Trying to Inflict personality death on her son is why Dandeer is considered problematic, isn't it?
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Exactly why we have to, we have the power to stop him for good here and now if we don't and more people are killed by him later, their blood is on our hands.
Alone, in 'the hole'
Sealing someone alone with at most a window to see the outside world is torture.
- Location
- Australia
You'll notice how I haven't been advocating for that either. The option I'm voting for his to show him a better path and try to convince him to take it, not force him along it.
This is an argument for deciding Kakara's characterisation, but the thing is that the time for deciding her characterisation in this regard has passed. Kakara is Thou Shalt Not Kill, not Thou Shalt Not Kill Except When There's Potentially Risk Involved.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If he goes to another planet and kills billions of people, that's entirely on our hands. And the vast majority of the quest feels enough involvement with the main character not to do something incredibly stupid because it would be "interesting".
If we can't seal it we're killing it, because that means the least amount of death in the long run.
- Location
- Australia
And what's the alternative? Do you think sending him to prison would functionally be any different?
Read the context of an argument. The person I was responding to wants to kill him as a FIRST resort. This is important, which is why you should always read and take into account context.
We don't know that, for all we know sayan prison for depowered people could be very progressive and aimed to rehabilitate its prisoners instead of torturing and maybe brainwashing him witch is your option, plus if its not a fair prison nothing stop us from changing it in a more fair option, we are the unofficial princess of our people not some random bystander with no power.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Traits arent set in stone and it explicitly allows lethal write ins.
Look i get you want to save him, but we can't, the only reason we can even oppose him is because of a temporary power-up, if we had more time, if we knew more about him him then maybe, but we cannot. I am sorry we failed him but i will not fail others for his sake.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Subdue the dragon utterly. Stun it, physically disable it if you have to. Hold it in place and lock it down with raw power.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
I cannot believe the paranoid
We're using our body, it's not just an electric rice cooker we can write off for the purpose of containing the villain.
I'm not sure the fact that it was his idea is a point in its favor. He knows what it'll do; that doesn't mean it's harmless by my standards.
Kakara values the dragon's life. She is under no obligation to prioritize minimizing the dragon's suffering over, say, the risk of collateral damage to the planet, or the risk of the dragon somehow slipping free.
-[X] Call on all the sorcerors to Seal away its psychic and ki powers.
-[X] Interrogate it. It calls itself an embodiment of endings, it claims to be a devourer of worlds, and you will know why.
Kind of missing my point, which to be fair I communicated in a flawed way. The point here is that we need to at least get out of the dragon "why do you do what you do, what drives you," if we are to have much hope of a nonlethal resolution. But first we have to bust the dragon down closer to our level and limit its power, or it'll just keep up this raw "KNEEL BEFORE ME WORMS" bullshit.
If there is any way for us to throw this fight it will begin with us deliberately giving up on 95% of our power because our advantage is Just That Big. If we're even going to consider that, it will have to be after neutralizing the dragon's actual power to such an extent that we are very, very confident in what we are doing.
I cannot believe the paranoid
Let's first beat down the dragon, then gain some information and look into containment options, then decide whether or not we have a viable method of containment.
I do not want to try to absorb this dragon, it has a bad attitude and I don't want to risk having a mean dragon voice riding around inside our head. Plus, absorbing the psychic entity and keeping it around after our massive power-up fades sounds like yet another possible way to throw this fight.
I kind of don't agree. Firstly, we may have a character who hates us taking up residence inside our head (psychiatric undermining ahoy!) Secondly, we're going to have all kinds of options we can't safely take anymore, or have to constantly shadowrun about what might go wrong. Do we have to worry that the next time we take our spirit for a walk, the dragon will possess our body? Or this or that technique?
We're using our body, it's not just an electric rice cooker we can write off for the purpose of containing the villain.
To be fair, even though I KNOW this is a long shot, it's at least not fundamentally a stupid question.
Based on Gohan's commentary, directly telling someone how to use a spirit bomb is arguably the best way possible to ensure they never duplicate the technique.
This is basically why my preferred vote includes "interrogate the dragon." We need to know what and why, or we can neither confine or persuade it. Most of our nonlethal options are inviable right now because we don't know which one to use, and don't see a way to use them.
I think that might be asking a little much, and even by Kakara standards expecting a fight to be 'painless' is kind of pushing it.
Monado has suggested some very weird things and has a strange sense of humor.The creator of the dragon(s) was the one who suggested it.
(Fourth Monado, in case you're confused)
I'm not sure the fact that it was his idea is a point in its favor. He knows what it'll do; that doesn't mean it's harmless by my standards.
I'd be OK adding 'painless' to a vote I otherwise like, but given how Dragonball works and that we don't know if our margin of superiority is that ridiculously big or merely ridiculously big, I'd prefer not to make 'painless' a requirement.
Kakara values the dragon's life. She is under no obligation to prioritize minimizing the dragon's suffering over, say, the risk of collateral damage to the planet, or the risk of the dragon somehow slipping free.
To be fair, this is a situation where even a lot of pacifists would at least pause to think "wait, is this specific being something I can restrain without killing?"
Tentatively:
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting while harming him as little as possible.
-[X] Talk to him, try to make him see reason, try to convince him to surrender himself to us if we can't make him change his mind.
- -[X] if we can't reach him with words and he doesn't surrender himself make him go unconscious without harming him, and ask the sorcerers if they can force a masque on him to seal most if not all his power while mantaining his memories and personality. Then hand him to your father so he could be taken to prison for the crimes he committed.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
So, so far the ideas thrown are:
1) Beat him and talk him into surrender
2) Sending the feeling we had when we realized everyone is connected to him via telepathy and hope he is moved enough to have empathy and a new respect for life.
3) Seal him inside ourselves
4) Put him inside a masque that seals his powers but NOT his memories.
5) Kill it if we can't convince him.
6) *Sigh*
Turn him into dragonballs
1) Beat him and talk him into surrender
2) Sending the feeling we had when we realized everyone is connected to him via telepathy and hope he is moved enough to have empathy and a new respect for life.
3) Seal him inside ourselves
4) Put him inside a masque that seals his powers but NOT his memories.
5) Kill it if we can't convince him.
6) *Sigh*
Turn him into dragonballs
Ando Owen
Yandere Illya is watching you.
- Location
- Montpellier
[X] Defeat him quickly, utterly and as painlessly as possible, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down. See if sharing the knowledge and sensation that All is One can convince him onto a better path.
--[X] If he refuses, see if you can seal him inside yourself, becoming both prison and warden.
This plan is excellent I think. It manages to offer several possibilities while remaining relatively short and narratively good. It's not a soup of options, it's a logical evolution of diplomacy. It also reflects both DBZ and Kakara's spirit, both making a friend out of an enemy and making people understand each other.
I hope we won't pick the "talk with the adults" option.
Nope. Nicol Bolas has far greater precognition powers I believe, and one of his tricks is some multi-dimensional layering in order to make himself immune to physical harm. For the rest, I would have a hard time figuring what.
-[X] Then talk to him see if you make him stand down. See if sharing the knowledge and sensation that All is One can convince him onto a better path.
--[X] If he refuses, see if you can seal him inside yourself, becoming both prison and warden.
This plan is excellent I think. It manages to offer several possibilities while remaining relatively short and narratively good. It's not a soup of options, it's a logical evolution of diplomacy. It also reflects both DBZ and Kakara's spirit, both making a friend out of an enemy and making people understand each other.
I hope we won't pick the "talk with the adults" option.
Nope. Nicol Bolas has far greater precognition powers I believe, and one of his tricks is some multi-dimensional layering in order to make himself immune to physical harm. For the rest, I would have a hard time figuring what.