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so, more like, Atrocitous has JUSTIFIED anger, is more cold fury, able to think throughout almost all of it, and he tries to recruit those who are similar?
no killing just because you are nearby, but if you do something horrible, well...

Zoat has indicated that Atrocitus won't be forming a red lantern corps in this story, so no.

He hates the Guardians too much to flatter them with imitation.
 
Except again, we presumably are going to be seeing Blue Lantern Rings that weren't designed as a means of providing portable chargers and expendable backup troops for the GLC; hopefully the Blue Lanterns of WTR won't be making do with non-automated healing and limited Alexandria packages. Which, as OL pointed out to the League, is not really going to save you against most galactic forces.

Seriously, you do not win wars against spacefaring opponents with punches, no matter how "super" they are; a capital ship is still going to peel you apart as you try to close for melee with its operators - especially given that no constructs means no zeta tubes, specialized shielding, targeting baffles, or other auxiliary functionality from the ring.
In no continuity are Blue Lanterns meant to be fighting wars solo, let alone winning them. They're meant as partners for the Greens and probably disaster relief when acting alone
 
In no continuity are Blue Lanterns meant to be fighting wars solo, let alone winning them. They're meant as partners for the Greens and probably disaster relief when acting alone
Except again, that's just because the BLC we see in the main continuities was carefully pruned and twisted to make them assume that role. The Light of Hope is not innately inferior to every other component of the Emotional Spectrum, and literally no other Light is dependent on the presence of another to function. Either Hope is actually, metaphysically weaker than ideas like Fear and Rage (which says rather unsettling things about the DC universe), to the point where it needs Will to prop up its cripple self, or Ganthet deliberately sabotaged the Blue Lantern Rings because he was tired of helping run an army and wanted his Lanterns to be a (mostly) noncombatant auxiliary to the GLC.

Hope-powered Lantern Rings should be perfectly capable of fighting - and winning - wars, just like how that same ring tech lets you blow shit up (or fix shit, or make entirely new shit out of solidified nonsense energy) by being afraid or in love.
 
Except again, that's just because the BLC we see in the main continuities was carefully pruned and twisted to make them assume that role. The Light of Hope is not innately inferior to every other component of the Emotional Spectrum, and literally no other Light is dependent on the presence of another to function. Either Hope is actually, metaphysically weaker than ideas like Fear and Rage (which says rather unsettling things about the DC universe), to the point where it needs Will to prop up its cripple self, or Ganthet deliberately sabotaged the Blue Lantern Rings because he was tired of helping run an army and wanted his Lanterns to be a (mostly) noncombatant auxiliary to the GLC.

Hope-powered Lantern Rings should be perfectly capable of fighting - and winning - wars, just like how that same ring tech lets you blow shit up (or fix shit, or make entirely new shit out of solidified nonsense energy) by being afraid or in love.
I always figured Blue rings were less efficient at that sort of thing rather than being completely cut off from the capability. Like, the majority of Red Lanterns can't make constructs. Maybe Blue is similar, and doing solo fighting with them requires something other than just hoping really hard.
 
Well now I know why I thought it hadn't been resolved, the climax was two sections and then never brought up again and other than apollo being punched no one got any comeuppance

The Lantern continuity was basically unchanged by the New 52 and later Convergence events. The writers made stories as if nothing had changed and had enough clout to go through with it. It basically means that Lanterns have had more or less one single continuity since they established the existence of Parallax. The entire run of New Guardians, where my information comes from, built directly on top of the previous events Blackest Night and Brightest Day, despite the fact that they happened right before the reboot.

Also, it was not a crossover with Jaime Reyes, sadly, it was the wider Reach polity attacking Odym as they tend to do.

Personally, my headcanon is that Lantern rings must provide some kind of temporal anchoring, preventing most changes to a Lantern's personal timeline. But I have no actual evidence for this. However, it does provide the amusing mental image of a Hal Jordan occasionally seeing his surroundings ripple as the timeline changes around him, him saying "Damn it not again," and then playing along while he's on Earth because that's official Corps policy or something, and that's why he spends so much time off planet, because he's sick of seeing a new earth every time someone time travels. Flashpoint kind of puts a kibosh on this, but I still find it an amusing thought.
As Linkara puts it, DC failed to fully commit on the New 52. The comics and characters that had particularly popular story lines going at the time, kept them going. So what was and was not continuity became something of a mess.
Which explains why no-one's questioning how Batman has his entire Bat family, when everyone else is just starting out.
Yeah, when New 52 kicked off, the Bat-writers decided they didn't feel like sorting thru past continuity to decide what had and hadn't happened in the new history and just said "It all happened, just compressed down to 5 years".

So 4 Robins, 3 Batgirls, Huntress, Batwoman, Knightfall, No-Man's Land, Jason Todd's rebirth as Red Hood, etc, all in a 5 year span. :wtf:o_O:jackiechan: Between stuff like this and the Lantern writers ignoring the reboot entirely, Is it any surprise they had to reset things again?
 
Yeah, when New 52 kicked off, the Bat-writers decided they didn't feel like sorting thru past continuity to decide what had and hadn't happened in the new history and just said "It all happened, just compressed down to 5 years".

So 4 Robins, 3 Batgirls, Huntress, Batwoman, Knightfall, No-Man's Land, Jason Todd's rebirth as Red Hood, etc, all in a 5 year span. :wtf:o_O:jackiechan: Between stuff like this and the Lantern writers ignoring the reboot entirely, Is it any surprise they had to reset things again?

Well DC only brings in on themselves with their insanely convoluted continuity.

What I find hilarious is after decades of being praised for it...Marvel does a crisis event right after DC tries to pull everything back together.
 
I understand why people ignore the New52 for story reasons, but I think basic capabilities of their characters established during different continuities should probably be up for grabs. A prominent example in my mind is the SuperNova ability of Superman. While he probably doesn't have that ability in this fic, I can see rationale for why Zoat could include it if he so chose. Personally, I think it's a cool ability that introduces some interesting story potential, given the whole "basically mortal" for a certain amount of time afterward. It's not as important for a fic that focuses on Lanterns so much, but if I were writing a Kryptonian SI in YJ, I would definitely include it.

That being said, I think looking at the New52 for the Lantern capabilities is incredibly important for this fic in general. Even if you don't actually incorporate all of it, some of it is pretty nice. The actual capabilities of the Blue Lantern Power Rings is one of those complicated subjects, that needs to be addressed if the blue light becomes more important in the future of the fic.

Now that Zoat's taken the story to space, I'm actually incredibly excited at the possibilites of the different lights. Already, this section's depiction of Zamaron is promising. What does an entire universe of Lanterns who aren't locked to TV show power levels accomplish?
 
OL needs a cool ship. it's out of character not to have a backup system in case something happens to his rings.

Also, this ship should have a Zeta beam booth.
Earth is shielded from Zeta beams, but he would be the one to have the override.
 
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Except again, that's just because the BLC we see in the main continuities was carefully pruned and twisted to make them assume that role. The Light of Hope is not innately inferior to every other component of the Emotional Spectrum, and literally no other Light is dependent on the presence of another to function. Either Hope is actually, metaphysically weaker than ideas like Fear and Rage (which says rather unsettling things about the DC universe), to the point where it needs Will to prop up its cripple self, or Ganthet deliberately sabotaged the Blue Lantern Rings because he was tired of helping run an army and wanted his Lanterns to be a (mostly) noncombatant auxiliary to the GLC.

Hope-powered Lantern Rings should be perfectly capable of fighting - and winning - wars, just like how that same ring tech lets you blow shit up (or fix shit, or make entirely new shit out of solidified nonsense energy) by being afraid or in love.

Or one could remember the abilities that blue rings got instead of the standard stuff.

Like rejuvenating a sun by 8 billion years and still being at 100% charge by replenishing through ambient hope.

Like recharging green lantern rings even over 100%, in prime continuity they were given the ability to recharge any color ring.

Like healing far better than other rings.

Or that their constructs are psychedelic.

Or trumping red rings by calming their rage, trumping yellow rings by draining their charge, and trumping orange by blocking their energy absorption abilities.

Anyone who thinks adding 8 billions years to sun's lifespan is weaker than punching someone with a construct just isn't blue lantern material, I suspect.

And if one gives them all the abilities of a green lantern in addition to that, the comments would be along the lines of "There are two types of lanterns, blue lanterns, and losers who wish they were blue lanterns."

So really, no surprise that Zoat decided to streamline the ring capabilities to avoid the whole issue.
 
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I remember you mentioning long ago that she worked it out, at least partially because she met Blue Paul, who the SI said was older than him. Also, he acts far too mature for an 18 year old.
But Green Lanterns can't go there because it would break their agreement with Larfleeze, but also because the Psions have weapons capable of killing Green Lanterns. And therefore also capable of killing an Orange Lantern?
Depends. Green Lanterns can only bring so much force to bear before they have to scale back to prevent killing their opponent. Orange Lanterns don't work under such a restriction.
I mean, look how emphatically Green Arrow turned down the danner formula. In addition to how everyone turns down Paul's power armor, especially when they hear it takes a little time to program. A process that I guarantee could be streamlined.

Then there is batman, who has had first hand knowledge of what danner has done for Robin (the always dangerous killer croc breaking his own hand anyone?) But is still arrogant/insane enough to go "Nope, I'm fine."
Aside from his stated personal views on human augmentation, he might simply be waiting for a better option. LexCorp and Kid Flash are working on alchemy, and more are likely to do so in the future. Why take the Danner formula, which is only slightly better than good power armor and mutually exclusive with other alchemical augmentations, when something significantly better could be coming in a few years? And it's not like the League really needs another super tough and strong person. Something that enhances Batman's perception or deduction abilities would be far more useful.
Pretty sure that it was mentioned that the main reason that Batman didn't get dannered is because it would take time for him to re-learn how to do things including fight. Which is a problem with how extremely busy he is as both Batman and Bruce Wayne. Zoat also mentioned that he would have actually considered getting awakened since it would be far easier to deal with since it's a gradual chance but Grayven being the one offering...
He may trust Scott Free enough to do it. That could be interesting. And maybe Zatanna could do so as well.
The Red Light of Rage can be just, or protective, but the Guardians don't see that and so their Rings - approaching the Red Light as if it should be in a Ring - gives their perspective, that it is destructive and self-destructive. Used that way, it has difficulty encompassing a mother protecting her child from danger, for example. Or interposing a defense between an innocent and harm because 'I won't accept that'. (Or getting careful, certain revenge without collateral damage.
I saw that more as a failing of the Lanterns rather than their rings actually prohibiting them from doing stuff like that. In the Animated Series, Razer uses constructs just like the Greenies. They're ringed in red flames, but still constructs.
Like, the majority of Red Lanterns can't make constructs.
I believe that they can, but because Atrocitus recruits berserkers his Lanterns never try anything much more complicated than "Energy beam them to death. If that doesn't work, get angrier and try again."
 
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I believe that they can, but because Atrocitus recruits beserkers his Lanterns never try anything much more complicated than "Energy beam them to death. If that doesn't work, get angrier and try again."

A bit more complicated than that. When Guy became a red lantern the first time, he was a foaming at the mouth berserker too, but he was still able to form constructs.

So for normal people, berserker rage and fighting with constructs just aren't compatible, for people with experience with construct combat it's apparently not an issue.

So Atrocitas shot himself in the foot with the whole "turn all my recruits into mindless animals," big surprise.
 
Like rejuvenating a sun by 8 billion years and still being at 100% charge by replenishing through ambient hope.
Yeah, Saint Walker pulled that off. Precisely one time. On a planet that was dying, and whose mythology was so in line with him as their savior I suspect time travel or precognition must have been involved. Also, he presumably needed to use radio transmissions to make everyone know they had to lend him their energy for the Spirit Bomb, because he sure as shit wasn't making any constructs to do it.

Alternatively, he burned up his ring's charge fixing the sun, and then desperately raced back to his homeworld to soak up the hope its inhabitants emitted as they realized their sun was getting brighter before he ran out of charge completely and his environmental shields winked out.

Like recharging green lantern rings even over 100%, in prime continuity they were given the ability to recharge any color ring.
That's not really a benefit for any Blue Lantern who doesn't want to be dependent on some other, luckier soul to actually do things. "You're super good at being another ring-slingers' subordinate" isn't exactly a wondrous gift of the cosmos for the Blue Lantern.

Like healing far better than other rings.
Sort of like how the Indigo Tribe can teleport across the galaxy, which is why they don't have constructs either. Oh wait, they do, and are pretty good at healing bodies & minds to boot, and they can mimic other Lights' gimmicks. Once again, either Hope is for losers or these rings are whack.

Or trumping red rings by calming their rage, trumping yellow rings by draining their charge, and trumping orange by blocking their energy absorption abilities.
That could just as easily be a special technique, a la how Larfleeze assimilates anyone he kills, rather than a basic power of the Blue Light.

Anyone who thinks adding 8 billions years to sun's lifespan is weaker than punching someone with a construct just isn't blue lantern material, I suspect.
In terms of combat utility? I would indeed assume that being able to rejuvenate a sun is less useful than being able to manifest a zeta flayer construct. And the thing is, what "Blue Lantern material" even is is still very much a point of contention, considering my entire argument rests on the idea that Ganthet deliberately crippled the rings and then programmed them to seek out people whose hope manifested in an entirely pacifistic, humanitarian form, because he didn't want warriors in his Corp.

Hope can carry a sword just as well as Rage or Will or Avarice. Denying the Blue Lanterns a means of offense seems more a choice of the Corp's founder than a matter of metaphysics.

And if one gives them all the abilities of a green lantern in addition to that, the comments would be along the lines of "There are two types of lanterns, blue lanterns, and losers who wish they were blue lanterns."
Yep, that's what you get from A) bobblehead malware, and B) a ring designed around minimizing the mental influence on its users and ensuring its power remains in the hand of its makers rather than its users, not necessarily in that order. The fact that the light of "don't you fucking tell me what to do" is being used to successfully power a military organization built around obedience to a hierarchy makes me suspect the Light's natural tendencies are deliberately placed second to... other concerns in the rings' search protocols.

From a Doylist perspective, it's mostly an issue of Green Lantern rings being the first ones we had, so they kind of missed out on the special powers lottery when they started coming up with the Emotional Spectrum. The fact that they're a monolithic, well-established organization supported by living gods when most of the other Corps are fringe groups with little backing might also tip things a little.
 
Depends. Green Lanterns can only bring so much force to bear before they have to scale back to prevent killing their opponent. Orange Lanterns don't work under such a restriction.

That's offense, though, not defense. Anything capable of penetrating a Green Lantern's force field ought to be capable of doing the same thing with an Orange Lantern.

I mean, whatever. I'm not saying that Paul needs to be running scared. Plenty of superheroes are vulnerable to regular earth guns, and they still go out on the mean streets every day. It does mean that he should exercise some discretion and not assume he can overwhelm any arbitrary amount of "ordinary soldiers". If he riles things up to the point where they're calling out the Citadel Army at him, that's probably a signal to retreat rather than assume they don't have any weapons capable of harming him.

Actually, this whole trip is going to require more discretion than he usually prefers. He's dropping himself into an alien world with nothing much more than his ring's translation function to help him out. Every aspect of the local and history culture is going to be foreign to him and he has no way to verify any opinions the locals offer to him. He's going to have to question everything. Like, suppose he wants to make contact with the anti-Citadel resistance. One person tells him they're heroic revolutionaries. Another says they're ruthless terrorists who are worse than the Citadel itself. Maybe both people completely believe what they're saying. There's going to be a lot of stuff like that, where gaining information doesn't mean he'll know what it really means. Even the local internet equivalent won't help, because his ring may be able to scan it but separating truth from falsehood is likely to be more difficult.

I suspect that really getting a grip on understanding the Vega Systems will be the work of years.
 
Red Lanterns are Super Saiyans!
FTFY

Because I don't see Reds coming back from near-death stronger than ever.:V

Would be fun with Superman having to talk Freeza from blowing up shit. After Madame Xanadu warns Justice League that trying to solve the problem of that particular Super-Dictator the usual way, by trying to punch him, will quickly escalate into next asteroid belt around Sun who's surrounded by eight planets now.

Because, mind me, I can't stop rolling on the floor laughing when trying to imagine Justice League trying to calmly talk it out with Freeza. Chmm, perhaps they could calmly talk it out with Abridged!Freeza. He's pretty chill.

*Batman observes how Superman and others fail in convincing Freeza*
Batman:"I heard that dude Darkseid sees himself as the ultimate Overlord over the cosmos, lord Freeza. Here are coordinates of his monument to his own glory, Apokolips."
*Freeza narrows his eyes and departs with a frown on his face. Everyone in Justice League looks at Batman with horrified expressions.*
Batman:"What?"
 
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Yeah, Saint Walker pulled that off. Precisely one time.

De-aging stars is one of their core abilities. It's literally listed on the same exact page as the source for "Without a GL around, a BL only gets flight and vacuum protection", making that statement even more dubious.


That's not really a benefit for any Blue Lantern who doesn't want to be dependent on some other, luckier soul to actually do things. "You're super good at being another ring-slingers' subordinate" isn't exactly a wondrous gift of the cosmos for the Blue Lantern.

Eh, I'd describe it more as Ganthet deliberately designing the BLC as a counter to the other corps, rather than a subordinate.

They can drain a Yellow ring, are immune to being drained by an Orange ring, can hit a Red user with visions to calm him down, and can overload a Green ring and destroy it. (For all I know, they also have specific means of dealing with Indigo and Violet-wielders.)

It's not like they automatically trump them (in the "every member of X corps can beat any member of Y corps" sense), but their abilities seem to be designed with the idea that they're going to need to deal with other ring-wielders, much more so than the other corps.

There's not a lot of pre-New 52 instances of BLC members doing stuff on their own, since they're usually part of a group of other lanterns when we see them. At the least, however, we've seen them do healing and that hope construct thing even with no other ring-wielders around, as well as energy blasts and regular constructs when paired up with ring-wielders other than green.

From a design viewpoint, BLs seem like they're designed to be commanders, with each one having a team of GL soldiers doing their grunt-work.

Huh. Wonder if that was Ganthet's end-goal for his corps. We know he planned on having Hal Jordan operate as the leader of the BLC while still wielding a GL ring.

Considering he's one of the most knowledgeable people around on power ring technology, Ganthet presumably had a way to prevent the Guardians from just revoking or deactivating his GL ring, and the link to the GCPB wouldn't matter since BLs could recharge him. And, if he can do it with Hal, he could do it with others, and since this was during the whole Alpha Lantern mess, there were a number of GLs either thinking about leaving (or having already left, but hey, Ganthet knows how to make GL rings as well), and potentially up for grabs.

He could theoretically have ended up with a mixed corps, with Hal as the leader, the actual BLC as the officers, and ex-GLs as the cops/soldiers under them. Not a bad mix, either from a power viewpoint or emotional balance one.
 
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