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I don't think it would be a rogue agency if it was never authorized by the government in the first place.
Zoat said it grew out of the All-Star Squadron, so SHADE's precursor probably was authorized until sometime after WW2's end. Knowing how things get exaggerated in comics it probably went fully underground at the start fo the cold war.
 
Well you're never going to learn if you don't study it. Sure, human trials seem to be a bit silly given the level of ignorance, but waiting around isn't going to decrease that ignorance.
Coming Soon to a WTR near you, less human gaining superpowers for secret gov't experiments, and even more super powered monkeys a la the thinking cap incident :p

Also, for a relatively secure room, I'd expect the door to open outwards instead of in. Harder to open with brute force.
secure doors should not open outward because that would mean the hinge parts are exposed on the unsecured side. Hinges on the outside mean it is easier to blow the door, a door opening out is easier to block to trap the occupants inside against their will by blocking the door.
 
Like canon-Wallace's night camouflage costume, only more armoured and with yellow tron lines.
I basically imagined the armor the SI is wearing on the first page, but with a different color scheme.
Also, anyone else think that the supervillain work release means that Grayven paid for the DLC?
He doesn't have literally the greediest being in the universe as a waifu. Saves quite a bit of money.
You're only picking this up now? I mean, he's literally playing God Mode.

:evil:
Nah, he overspecialized in combat. His crafting stat is currently pretty bad, speech is average at best, and forget about sneak. He can barely fit through normal doors, while the Paragon can go invisible and intangible.

Having telepathic resistance high enough to beat the training scenario opens up the option of getting the epic item [Father Box], although you need to be able to blitz Desaad to get it, but lacking sneak and crafting really limits your options if the guards strip your weapons at any point.
Coming Soon to a WTR near you, less human gaining superpowers for secret gov't experiments, and even more super powered monkeys a la the thinking cap incident :p
I'll take the monkeys. They're not all that bright compared to a human.
secure doors should not open outward because that would mean the hinge parts are exposed on the unsecured side. Hinges on the outside mean it is easier to blow the door, a door opening out is easier to block to trap the occupants inside against their will by blocking the door.
A vault door would be locked into the wall on both sides, so removing the hinges would only make it difficult to get out from the inside. Inconvenient, but it could be unlocked then toppled when the threat is gone. Making the door open inwards means that any brute force attack merely needs to break the locking mechanism, which would be less sturdy than the surrounding reinforced wall. If it opens outwards, a brute force attack would need to essentially break the entire wall to get in.
 
And no one is doing Stargate jokes yet? Damn I feel old.

"Excuse me, are you saying Father Time is a freaking Goa'uld?"

If it makes you feel better I thought about the comparison.

Which reminds me, since they mentioned the Captain Atom project in Renegade- There's another way to make quantum superbeings with dilustel without relying on a nuclear explosion, Bombshell was the result of his alternate process.

The dilustel bonded to her like the venom symbiote.

I don't know if the process is any safer, but this way you don't have to wait 40 years for the result.

For that matter, Ironfire was the result of replicating the captain atom experiment with X-ionized metal, he came out of the quantum field pretty much immediately.

Although neither is as powerful as Captain Atom or Major Force.
 
Escalation (part 2)
17th May
08:38 GMT -5


"…realise that it's not what you want to hear, sir, but that's their final ruling." Mister Myers stops himself. "That is to say, that is the informal opinion of the Justices of the Supreme Court. And if it got challenged, that's where it would have to go."

President Horne nods solemnly. "So, we couldn't get the votes, and if we could get them it would just get struck down anyway."

"That's more or less the size of it, sir."

Horne sighs, head slightly bowed. "I was really hoping we could avoid-" He glances at me. "-another situation like Klarion."

I shrug. "Constitutions. Who'd 'ave 'em?"

Myers nods his head to the side. "We could try fighting it. If we got someone really bad convicted before they could hear the arguments, someone who wouldn't be aware of all of their legal routes, I doubt they'd want to order them releas-."

"No." Horne shakes his head firmly. "I'm not prepared to do that. I didn't become President to try riding roughshod all over the Constitution I swore to uphold. If absentia trials are off the agenda we'll just have to come up with something else."

I fan my hands out. "How about… Mobile courts? I could fly a judge and jury to wherever the malfeasant is, they could do the trial opening, then if the bad guy leaves then they've clearly chosen to absent themselves and there's no problem."

"Heh heh." Horne chuckles, nodding. "That's a great mental image, but I don't think I'd want to try whipping votes for the Bill to make that happen. General?"

"I'm not an expert on the legal situation, sir, but things are a lot simpler if we treat them as enemy combatants. If they're not US citizens and they're powerful enough to present a threat to national security on their own, I don't see why you can't issue an order as Commander in Chief that gets around all that." General Lane's eyes narrow for a moment. "That's not to say we're anything like ready to fight some of these people right now, but in five to ten years it could start to look a whole lot more realistic."

Horne nods. "I'm sure that the men and women of the US armed forces would do their best in whatever situation they were called upon. And I might find myself ordering something like that at some point, regardless of what either of us might ideally wish. But that still leaves the question of what we do with people whom we can only hold temporarily, or who are readying for an attack, or who have to be-" He looks at me again. "-lured out of hiding."

"Well sir, have you considered creating a third category? Someone who isn't an enemy soldier or a civilian criminal?"

Horne sits back in his chair, giving General Lane his full attention. "No General, I have not."

"Sir, the laws which govern how we wage war were drawn up from the customs of medieval European nations who didn't have guns, let alone super powers. The sorts of challenge they faced are categorically different from the ones we face today. We aren't talking about the possibility of being conquered by.. Russia or by China. We're not talking about being forced to pay reparations, or accepting some sort of political restructuring. We're talking about people who would be perfectly happy to kill every last American citizen. We're talking about single individuals with no widespread support who can kill thousands of our people for no greater reason than their own sick personal pleasure. Or someone who can seize control of the minds of a body like the Justice League and send them out against anyone they choose. There are people out there who can equal or surpass the destructive power of nations. I don't think that we can continue to apply the same old laws to this situation. We could get a lot more leeway if the rules for dealing with these people were phrased in such a way as to be clear that they weren't being treated either as soldiers of another nation or as criminals."

"No." Horne looks almost… Tired as he says it. "No, General, I will not do that. I appreciate what you're saying and why you're saying it. I need to hear things like that sometimes, but… No. No matter how convenient it might be, that's not a step I'm prepared to take." He bows his head slightly, closing his eyes and touching his left fist to his chest. "Adrian, talk to some people about the military threat option. See what the possibilities are."

"Yessir. Ah. Sir, I'm.. getting some questions about this. People are asking where you're going. It hasn't gotten any real media attention yet…"

Horns opens his eyes. "I'll do a press conference once we've got something a little more concrete. At the moment, this is all just thinking out loud."

"Sir, I'm… Not sure that the House Minority Leader is going to see it like that. And I'm not sure the Attorney General will either."

"I'll brief Brian when we've got something to brief him on." He nods. "But you're right about Caroline. General? Mister Grayven? You have any particular problem with the Attorney General joining us?"

"No sir."

I shake my head. "I don't know the woman. If you think it's a good idea, by all means."

"Alright then. Unless there's anything else..?"

I nod. Hm. While I haven't reached a final decision on my continued Light membership as yet, I suppose that if I were going with my original plan… "There is one thing I'd like to raise, Mister President. Semi.. personal matter, but pertinent to our work. Have you been briefed on the League of Shadows?"

"I know of the organization."

"I'm investigating them with a view to ending them." General Lane raises his left eyebrow. "I have an informant on the inside. I'd like to be able to offer them… Not an immunity for testimony deal. If I missed even one Shadow their life would be over. A pardon."

"I assume that this person is a murderer?"

"Yes sir. There were extenuating circumstances regarding their recruitment and they want to leave, but… They can't. I realise that this is a big deal, and I'm prepared to work to get federal and state police into position to perform the arrests -eventually- rather than just handling the whole matter myself. You can make the announcements, offer information to foreign leaders and leave me out of-."

"Grayven."

"Mister President."

"Stop trying to bribe me. Getting those murderers is more important than my re-election. Don't do anything that makes it less likely that they'll all get caught just to try and make me look good."

"Alright… Well, depending on what stage General Lane's got to, having police, military and local superheroes in position should be perfect for the arrests. I'll be able to inform you better once I know more than I do now."

"Can I assume that your informant would be keeping a low profile after this? I'm not keen on announcing the end of the League if they plan to go on talk radio right after."

"Extremely low, Mister President." Because if I end up making that choice, Jade and I will be off Earth after a brief stop-off in Las Vegas.

"Then I'm prepared to agree. Conditional of course on the League of Shadows and most importantly its leadership ceasing to exist." He looks around the table. "Anything else?" The three of us shake our heads. "Alright then gentlemen. Thank you for your time."

General Lane and I get up first, and I let him be the one to operate the door. Keypad's a bit small for my fingers really. I follow him out into the corridor where he half-turns to me as we continue towards the exit. "You think I came over a bit strong in there?"

"No. He might, but he doesn't seem like the sort to get petty about it."

"No." His eyes crease slightly. "Y'know, when he was standing against McKeon, I didn't really think much of him. No military experience, kinda wishy-washy on defence. Didn't seem like the kinda guy I'd want running the country."

"And now?"

"Not sure I like him any better, but I sure respect him a whole lot more. Of course, him standing by his principles isn't going to make our job any easier, not where these trials are concerned."

"I doubt there are going to be that many. It's really more of a precautionary thing." A couple of White House staffers come around the corner, spot us -or rather me- and back up to let us go past. "I don't think I ever exactly asked you, but how do you feel about this whole superhero.. thing?"

"They're just a fact of life. Personally, I'd prefer it if they had some kinda oversight… You know, like they did in the Second World War. The All-Star Squadron. On the other hand, it makes me proud to be a citizen of a nation where private citizens are prepared to go out and serve their communities like that."

"Does that extend as far as your prospective son-in-law?"

"Heh." He turns his head away, theatrically rolling his eyes. "Ah, that guy. I'm sure not happy about someone as powerful as he is operating on his own recognizance, but I can't fault what he does. And Lois says I'm not allowed to shoot him, so I guess that working with him is the only option I have left. I understand you had some kind of falling out..?"

"Minor operational disagreement. I'm sure that we'll all pull together, when the time comes."
 
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You missed a perfect chance to do those "aside" things that the original series does, something like "I'm sure they'll see The Light"

Really liked the chapter though. A bit...wordy isn't the word, but very dense, but I enjoyed it.
 
I fan my hands out. "How about… Mobile courts? I could fly a judge and jury to wherever the malfeasant is, they could do the trial opening, then if the bad guy leaves then they've clearly chosen to absent themselves and there's no problem."
Even if that could work, I'd be worried about the safety of the judge and jury. If they're powerful enough to have special exceptions made for killing them, they're powerful enough that Grayven couldn't defend them with complete certainty.
"Well sir, have you considered creating a third category? Someone who isn't an enemy soldier or a civilian criminal?"

Horne sits back in his chair, giving General Lane his full attention. "No General, I have not."

"Sir, the laws which govern how we wage war were drawn up from the customs of medieval European nations who didn't have guns, let alone super powers. The sorts of challenge they faced are categorically different from the ones we face today. We aren't talking about the possibility of being conquered by.. Russia or by China. We're not talking about being force to pay reparations, or accepting some sort of political restructuring. We're talking about people who would be perfectly happy to kill every last American citizen. We're talking about single individuals with no widespread support who can kill thousands of our people for no greater reason than their own sick personal pleasure. Or someone who can seize control of the minds of a body like the Justice League and send them out against anyone they choose. There are people out there who can equal or surpass the destructive power of nations. I don't think that we can continue to apply the same old laws to this situation. We could get a lot more leeway if the rules for dealing with these people were phrased in such a way as to be clear that they weren't being treated either as soldiers of another nation or as criminals."
Would be interesting, although it might be something for the UN instead of the US to decide. Classify some threats as existential threats to the entire species, regardless of origin, and place a bounty on fixing them through whatever means.

Wotan tried to blot out the sun, Klarion killed hundreds of thousands of children, in season 2 Mongul was willing to kill everyone on Earth. Going through any sort of legal process on whether they should be immediately ended or not could very well lead to thousands or millions of casualties, even if they aren't actively commiting a crime at the time.
 
I'm kind of glad that no, Grayven failed to get what he wanted here. He's bad at this kind of thing, and the legal system isn't going to budge.

EDIT: It's not even so much I entirely disagree with him (although I'm a bit cynical on his solutions) as I'm just glad to see resistance.
 
Huh, a world where Sam Lane isn't rabid in his hatred of Superman. It's been some time since I've seen one of those. Usually, he's filled with disgust and/or disdain for the Man of Steel. I don't think he's ever liked either Clark Kent or Superman, and this is probably as close to a detente as I've seen him.
 
"Well sir, have you considered creating a third category? Someone who isn't an enemy soldier or a civilian criminal?"
There are people out there who can equal or surpass the destructive power of nations.

It occurs to me that there already is a third category, and the General indirectly references it himself? Whatever the reason for people claiming to be above the laws the average citizen must abide by, and whatever the means and powers by which they back their claim, they have existed for many thousands of years. And whether they are called monarchs or dictators, presidents or prime ministers, the US has laws to deal with them. It is, after all, led by one it peacefully elects every four years.

So if you wield power on the level of nations? Perhaps the US is willing to formally recognise you as a nation (even if it's a nation of one), and you can have all those nice diplomatic perks that foreign dignitaries get if you visit peacefully (never have to worry about a parking ticket or standing in line for hours at customs ever again), but if you start mass-murdering its citizens then you're committing an Act of War and the US can respond appropriately - i.e. with superheroes or cruise missiles, whatever works best.
 
Even if that could work, I'd be worried about the safety of the judge and jury. If they're powerful enough to have special exceptions made for killing them, they're powerful enough that Grayven couldn't defend them with complete certainty.

They could telecommute. Judge and jury stay someplace safe while flying drones with TV screens go around to the villains.
 
It occurs to me that there already is a third category, and the General indirectly references it himself? Whatever the reason for people claiming to be above the laws the average citizen must abide by, and whatever the means and powers by which they back their claim, they have existed for many thousands of years. And whether they are called monarchs or dictators, presidents or prime ministers, the US has laws to deal with them. It is, after all, led by one it peacefully elects every four years.

So if you wield power on the level of nations? Perhaps the US is willing to formally recognise you as a nation (even if it's a nation of one), and you can have all those nice diplomatic perks that foreign dignitaries get if you visit peacefully (never have to worry about a parking ticket or standing in line for hours at customs ever again), but if you start mass-murdering its citizens then you're committing an Act of War and the US can respond appropriately - i.e. with superheroes or cruise missiles, whatever works best.

Honestly, I think you could do everything they need with just 'criminal.' The Police have wide powers to use lethal force if they even suspect they are in danger while pursing a suspect - enough so that they regularly kill bystanders who they just think might kinda sorta if you squint at it one day be a threat.

They only way someone like Witch Boy isn't a threat is if he's actively surrendering himself. So they could simply pursue subduing threats like him with lethal force so long as those threats don't actively seek to surrender. And if subduing involves drone strikes and artillery fire and superman using his heat vision on 'delete' that's just the appropriate level of force for that threat.

You don't actually need kill orders to effectively have them, even in our current system.
 
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