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The Republic! (A Warhammer City State Quest)

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Asmodemus said:
We're spending that on the academy, 40 gold.

We could spend wealth from next turn, 20 gold, but we would incur expenses. Far saner to wait for the gold to come.. unless we're absolutely certain that our opponent is about to invade AND that we can finish the fortress in time.

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"While I feel that the Fortress of the People would be a boon in any potential invasion by the old man believing himself following the will of his goddess, the fact remains that our coffers are embarrassingly low, to the point I would not be surprised if certain towns in the border princes have greater amounts.

Given our current status and the sheer work ahead of us in constructing the fortress, I do not believe it wise at the current time to spend what we have yet to gain for greater expense for the people. I do believe we should begin when we have coins in our great nation's pocket, ready to be given to those ready to work and gather the materials necessary to make the symbol of security we desire."
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"Brettonia built castles and thought it had meaning, thought they had chivalry. We must have our own new world, mustn't we? I am building wealth with my own two hands, and surely if we are rich and powerful, we can built in a day what the Lady could not in a month! That's what a friend of mine said, and he reads a ton of books, so he's surely right. And I myself am making a fortune workin' towards my own fish-sellery, an' one thing a Bretonnian Peasant like me would know is that you don't starve yourself tomorrow to feast today!

No, you save up.

An' once we train all of those men in the Academy to be good at fighting, then we'll have people to actually staff this 'Fortress.'

And thus I make my say!"

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OOC: The return of the Bretonnian former peasant who is now a fisherman/merchant who married an energetic woman, mostly supports money policies, is religiously confused, and intimidated by smart people. Sorry it too so long, I got distracted.
 
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I agree with @Asmodemus plus its my own initiative because of omakes whether to spend it or not.

Fellow councilors, I will be blunt.

Our finances are terribly low. What we need is to pad those extra money I've earned on true emergencies. The Fortress of the Pirate King is needed to throw back the invaders instead of duking it out on our homes. The Military Academy's construction is proceeding along well under my watchful gaze. I am proud to report that there is no emblezzlement once I said tgat they would defend themselves against Tobaro's finest in their homes instead of a well made fortress. How wonderful.

Keep those extra money. We will need them sooner or later instead of having a short term gain.
 
The Laurent said:
"Brettonia built castles and thought it had meaning, thought they had chivalry. We must have our own new world, mustn't we? I am building wealth with my own two hands, and surely if we are rich and powerful, we can built in a day what the Lady could not in a month! That's what a friend of mine said, and he reads a ton of books, so he's surely right. And I myself am making a fortune workin' towards my own fish-sellery, an' one thing a Bretonnian Peasant like me would know is that you don't starve yourself tomorrow to feast today!

No, you save up.

An' once we train all of those men in the Academy to be good at fighting, then we'll have people to actually staff this 'Fortress.'

And thus I make my say!"

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OOC: The return of the Bretonnian former peasant who is now a fisherman/merchant who married an energetic woman, mostly supports money policies, is religiously confused, and intimidated by smart people. Sorry it too so long, I got distracted.
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@The Laurent please ictalize your speech in order to make it valid in the GM's eyes.
 
butchock said:
- Brettonia though, well, they will hurt you if they ever get the chance, but Brettonia's Navy is currently laughable, you may even be able to defeat them just using the floating wrecks guarding the ports of Sartosa.
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You do realize that the Bretonnian Navy is basically the most advanced outside of the Dwarfs in the Old World? Bretonnian fleet consists of galleons and other rather good designs, each with tons of cannons on them. (Rules lawyering away the no gunpowder rule since they aren't on Bretonnian *soil*)

In the Man'O'War TT game Bretonnian ships are consistently faster and with heavier broadsides than Imperial ships save for the weakest Bretonnian ship (a privateer small ship) that can't mount cannons.

Hell, the Imperial Greatship was developed as a response to the Bretonnian galleons.



Notice all those tons of broadside cannons on the Bretonnian fleet?
 
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I'll be frank, fellow councilors. If there was one thing my drunkard of a father taught me, besides how to make some wicked drinks and never try to carve a roast while slushed, it was never spend money you don't have in your hand. And that goes double when we're talking something this large a project.
 
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*A fly buzzes overhead, unseen by all.*
All in good time, friends of mine. I am sure that we can endure for a bit longer, ensure that our economy is stronger.

I would see us rebuild our harbour first. Sartosa's strength has always lay in its pox-ridden hulls to keep out those who sought to destroy it. And with our corsairs properly trained I am certain the bug of liberty will infect like-minded individuals eventually.

As it stands, the debt of such a monument would see us be but an ulcer to our enemies until disorder and ambitious individuals change our government into something less equal.

Besides, I despair at those who would build a fortress before wealth oozes from our coffers. We are not Bretonnia. We do not need castles if it means our people are starving. If defence is the problem, build a brotherhood of steel, arm our citizens so that our people need not be protected by fortifications.
 
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aceraptor said:
You do realize that the Bretonnian Navy is basically the most advanced outside of the Dwarfs in the Old World? Bretonnian fleet consists of galleons and other rather good designs, each with tons of cannons on them. (Rules lawyering away the no gunpowder rule since they aren't on Bretonnian *soil*)

In the Man'O'War TT game Bretonnian ships are consistently faster and with heavier broadsides than Imperial ships save for the weakest Bretonnian ship (a privateer small ship) that can't mount cannons.

Hell, the Imperial Greatship was developed as a response to the Bretonnian galleons.



Notice all those tons of broadside cannons on the Bretonnian fleet?
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yup, I'm just giving the players a chance here, besides I am copying some of knight errant's canon, which means Brettonia does not invest that much in their navy hence warships are limited. What warships they have are patrolling their northern coasts. also, they already have BS knights, I won't let them become a naval power in this quest as well.
 
aceraptor said:
You do realize that the Bretonnian Navy is basically the most advanced outside of the Dwarfs in the Old World? Bretonnian fleet consists of galleons and other rather good designs, each with tons of cannons on them. (Rules lawyering away the no gunpowder rule since they aren't on Bretonnian *soil*)

In the Man'O'War TT game Bretonnian ships are consistently faster and with heavier broadsides than Imperial ships save for the weakest Bretonnian ship (a privateer small ship) that can't mount cannons.
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Was it ever explained where the 5th century level tech nation got those cannons? Or the gunpowder? Or the ammunition? Brettonia having this baddass gunpowder fleet always seemed so stupid, I could buy them having better ship designs and more skilled ship builders and sailors than the empire, the empires fleet is almost only used for patrolling rivers.
 
shenron said:
Was it ever explained where the 5th century level tech nation got those cannons? Or the gunpowder? Or the ammunition? Brettonia having this baddass gunpowder fleet always seemed so stupid, I could buy them having better ship designs and more skilled ship builders and sailors than the empire, the empires fleet is almost only used for patrolling rivers.
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Loophole abuse, realpolitik and a very skewed lorenz curve concentrating the wealth, allowing for individuals who own high quality vessels.

-Nobles can't use ranged weapons on Bretonnian soil. Commoners can.
-Serfs don't have money for ranged weapons. Nobles do.
-Producing, funding the production of or owning ranged weapons is not the same as using ranged weapons.
-At sea you're not on Bretonnian soil.
-Skaven are scary mofos with bullshit tech that wrecked the Bretonnian coast in 2320, resulting in the king ordering the construction of a grand fleet.
-Bretonnia somehow has a merchant class and a multi-cultural population in its cities, not all commoners are equal.
 
Qeqre said:
Loophole abuse, realpolitik and a very skewed lorenz curve concentrating the wealth, allowing for individuals who own high quality vessels.

-Nobles can't use ranged weapons on Bretonnian soil. Commoners can.
-Serfs don't have money for ranged weapons. Nobles do.
-Producing, funding the production of or owning ranged weapons is not the same as using ranged weapons.
-At sea you're not on Bretonnian soil.
-Skaven are scary mofos with bullshit tech that wrecked the Bretonnian coast in 2320, resulting in the king ordering the construction of a grand fleet.
-Bretonnia somehow has a merchant class and a multi-cultural population in its cities, not all commoners are equal.
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In short, a hypocritical stagnant society that scrapes by GeeDub fiat because there are waaay worse societies than them.
 
bryanfran36 said:
In short, a hypocritical stagnant society that scrapes by GeeDub fiat because there are waaay worse societies than them.
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Not all of it is stagnant. The class of Freemen is stated to be growing and there's folks like the Duke of Larret who is trying to advance his lands to an Imperial tech level.

Besides, it's not as if a high gini coefficient hasn't been done in nations like Argentinia, South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, the PRC, Russia, the U.S.A. or Bolivia before. Bretonnia is just an extreme medieval parody of that.
 
Qeqre said:
-Nobles can't use ranged weapons on Bretonnian soil. Commoners can.
-Serfs don't have money for ranged weapons. Nobles do.
-Producing, funding the production of or owning ranged weapons is not the same as using ranged weapons.
-At sea you're not on Bretonnian soil.
-Skaven are scary mofos with bullshit tech that wrecked the Bretonnian coast in 2320, resulting in the king ordering the construction of a grand fleet.
-Bretonnia somehow has a merchant class and a multi-cultural population in its cities, not all commoners are equal.
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Yes, But where do they get the cannons and ammunition? Brettonia doesn't have the tech base to make them in numbers, let alone on mass scale.
 
Trade is a thing.
And they are right next door to a sometimes friendly, sometimes enemy nation with a large cannon and gun industry.
 
cokerpilot said:
Trade
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Asmodemus said:
Trade is a thing.
And they are right next door to a sometimes friendly, sometimes enemy nation with a large cannon and gun industry.
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Who would they trade with it for? The Dwarfs only trade their neat stuff (such as gunpowder weaponry, plate armour, etc.) with the empire because of their ancient alliance and it is illegal to sell gunpowder weaponry to foreign states in the empire.

Night_stalker said:
Cannon shot is easy to make, the cannons proper probably just get bought from Tilea or Estalia.
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Neither of which have cannons...

Moreover even if they did have access to cannons from trade, how would Brettonia be able to even afford them on a mass scale, their economy runs on ducktape and hope. They're are not even legally allowed to tax money.
 
shenron said:
Who would they trade with it for? The Dwarfs only trade their neat stuff (such as gunpowder weaponry, plate armour, etc.) with the empire because of their ancient alliance and it is illegal to sell gunpowder weaponry to foreign states in the empire.
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I guess the Lady provides it with magic!
Or it's fucking bullshit leftover from earlier editions of Brettonia, cause lord knows they've changed it enough times for it to be whatever anyone wants depending on the edition.

Warhammer canon is only slightly better than the laughable thing that Blizzard calls canon.
 
shenron said:
Neither of which have cannons...

Moreover even if they did have access to cannons from trade, how would Brettonia be able to even afford them on a mass scale, their economy runs on ducktape and hope. They're are not even legally allowed to tax money.
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What.

No really what.

Bronzino's Galloper Guns

Also the idea the that Brettonia economy is ramshackle is ludicrous also where on earth did you come across the idea they can't levy taxs.
 
cokerpilot said:
Bronzino's Galloper Guns
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Huh, forgot about those guys.

cokerpilot said:
Also the idea the that Brettonia economy is ramshackle is ludicrous also where on earth did you come across the idea they can't levy taxs.
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It's from Knights of the Grail, by law the noblity are only able to tax things that have been witch have been grown or built by someone, like food or ore from mining. As the peasantry(specifically merchants) don't actually "make" money the nobility can't tax coin.
 
shenron said:
It's from Knights of the Grail, by law the noblity are only able to tax things that have been witch have been grown or built by someone, like food or ore from mining. As the peasantry(specifically merchants) don't actually "make" money the nobility can't tax coin.
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I actually had the sneaking suspicion that might be your source. That book was both written during the time period where GW was really into both self parody and dark humor, as well as being written as a warhammer fantasy role play adventure guide with the objective not to show a functioning society but to make an interesting environment to role play in as foreigners. The succeeded brilliantly, while that book can be used to give a glimpse into what their society might be like it should not be taken very accurate due to the prevalence of intentional self mockery and as an adventure setting not to mention how much of cannon has changed since then (I think it was released in early to mid 2006).
 
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