Sapere aude (Imperial Russian Mythos Organization Quest)
- Thread starter Slayer Anderson
- Start date
- Mature Alt. History Horror
- Location
- St. Petersburg
"Vassily" to stay consistent with the other use of the name. (actually, Vasily is spelled with a singular "s", but it'd be nitpicking to expect 100% accurate naming conventions in foreign althistory fanfiction)
"rubles"
[X] The cult should hand the steel process over to Peter III and see how the university is rewarded for its efforts. More than any reward, though, the emperor's aims are in line with what the cult believes will allow Russia to prosper.
Purely on the basis of diverging history from OTL and doing the thread tag more justice.
Temporary Threadmark - Vote Called!
- Location
- South of North
VOTE CALLED!
Winning Vote:
[X] The cult will hold out for the possibility of a palace coup by Catherine. Her views are more in line with her predecessors and favor a more traditional expansion of the empire. It is likely that she will be more generous than her husband as well.
Edit: I am a bit sad I won't get to write about Peter III extorting Iceland and Greenland from Denmark through military force, but them's the breaks.
Winning Vote:
[X] The cult will hold out for the possibility of a palace coup by Catherine. Her views are more in line with her predecessors and favor a more traditional expansion of the empire. It is likely that she will be more generous than her husband as well.
Edit: I am a bit sad I won't get to write about Peter III extorting Iceland and Greenland from Denmark through military force, but them's the breaks.
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Well regarding that, i believe now was not the right time for taking land from Denmark, but, if possible we could theoretically do it after Napoleonic wars if history takes it's course.
At congress of Vienna Russia basically got control of former dutchy of Warsaw (created from Prussian, Russian and Austrian parts of Poland).
We could theoretically influence the court to give up on that and seek parts of Denmark to open the northern trade routes, it synergies good with Russian acquisition of Finland in same time period and opening of another Baltic port. Plus our possessions in Alaska.
To achieve this we could lean in on support of Austria and Brittain, historically Prussia wanted dutchy eliminated , while Russia wanted to annex it, Brittain and Austria were against, thus the congress Poland was born and was short lived compromise. So getting British/Austria to support our takeover of Danish lands in exchange for supporting them in regard to Dutchy of Warsaw would help.
Uses of this are multiple, we open trade lanes to north sea and the world, which means we aren't to reliant on Mediterranean for that goal (note: we would still need to get out of Mediterranean). This means we won't be as focused on dismantling of Ottoman empire and taking Constantinople which doesn't put us on collision course with Austria in the Balkans and traditionally good relationship with them after Napoleonic wars has a chance to survive.
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- Location
- South of North
Sadly, as I mentioned, Catherine was largely focused on Eastern and Southeastern Europe. She's aiming at the Mediterranean, not the North Sea. It's highly unlikely that that projected course of events come to pass. Even more so because of some differences in what Napoleon is going to be going for…
- Location
- Russia
Do note that Britain does not want us anywhere near the larger seas. To avoid us getting in the Med, Ottomans were propped up, to avoid us having safe routes into the greater Pacific Japan was supported, and, if we want to get in the Atlantic, the Royal Navy will come in force - while our navy is split in two (three, when the Far East is better settled). Britain was not our friend, isn't our friend, and won't be our friend unless a major force rises up in the continent to challenge their dominion over the world - especially considering that at this point we fit that description.
Moreover, the Poles will be a problem no matter what Russia would do because oppressing anyone who's not Catholic (and, you know, there's a lot of non-Catholics in current borders of Poland) is currently a big no-no for everyone important in the region and Catherine will see fighting that as something that can help to cement her (very shaky) position on the throne, which is mostly reliant on bribing nobility with cash, "souls" (serfs) and laws, and shanking Peter the Great's direct descendants.
Considering that the peasantry expected the Manifesto on Freedom of the Nobility to be followed with a second manifesto - on their own freedom, and Peter III murdered very soon after that, it was pretty necessary to get any support she could muster - because getting serfdom to be even harsher instead was so deeply unpopular that almost everyone, including her own son, wanted to believe that Peter III was still alive and would come and fix everything. Pavel even considered running away to join Pugachev's rebellion. Ironically, exactly one day passed between the manifesto mentioned above and the Emancipation Manifesto - 1 day and 99 years.
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Yea, i somewhat assumed that, so in that spirit if we win we could try to go ham on Pole's together with Prussia on conference. They wanted Dutchy of Warsaw gone so we could in good spirits support them getting it in exchange for them supporting us in getting Schleswig and access to open sea in the North (Do note that before the congress they held much of the Dutchy anyway).
It's important to note that congress of Vienna and Napoleonic wars happened after Cathrines death, otherwise I'm in agreement about her policy of traditional expansion.
Edit: But then once again i do recognize importance of continuos land territory.
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- Russia
Oh, so you're offering a harsher First Partition with more Prussian gains in exchange for their support. Yes, the Polish Partitions haven't yet started and Poland is currently in its glorious 1772 borders (which nobody except the Poles themselves want). Yeah, while there are stuff that we might want in Poland proper (mostly coal), with hindsight leaving Polish rebellions to someone else to deal with for diplomatic support for our own interest is a good choice. If, of course, our diplomats manage to not turn all our gains into nothing again.
Still, even if we are reliant on the state, we're not, well, the state itself. We're just a university/secret cult, and while we can suggest internal and external policies, it is unlikely that our influence would be enough to act on that.
Catherina liked her favorites so if we invest in -Court Favor we have a chance on it. Just don't go for Iceland and Greenland, gift them to England or give them to Prussia, Russia force projection abilities were abysmal at that time and we would not be able to defend them.
Also I think that we should not overachieve in our next war with Turkey, since it can result in earlier Crimean war where England and France become temporal allies to stop Russia from overrunning Turkey.
If there is a war in which I would be interested to invest, it is Catherina last with Persia. In it Russia beaten Persian forces in Azerbaijan and stopped right on Iran border cause of Catherina death and her son Paul stopping offensive (for which he was killed couple of years later ). If we speed up fighting in Azerbaijan or prevent Paul from stopping invasion we can take ruins of Babylon and maybe even gain access to Gulf of Oman and Indian Ocean.
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No need to fight a war only to gift the land, better just ask to go after our primary objective which is Schleswig and that's it. Denmark is also more likely to accept such proposal.
No, lets leave that to the Catherine. At this point in time France and Britain are more at each other's throats than they are at Russian. Not to mention Austria and Russia are actually on the good terms. Otl Russia sized Crimea and much of kaukazus coastline on the black sea and no one important had a problem with it.
Russia was viewed as a threat after Napoleonic wars from 1815 by the British and later the French and the Austrians (though latter two have different reasons than British which also involved Ottoman empire losing its great power status).
Now let's not overextended here, or else we will be viewed as a threat to early (Ruins of Babylon were located in mesopotamia/Ottoman empire). Just take northern Persia, which was main goal anyway and is connected to us via Caspian sea.
But generally, i would like to point out once again that any expansion against Denmark is to premature at this point in time and won't be favoured by the Catherine (she is explicitly focused on black sea and Balkans/South where she won't step on others European powers toes to much).
That also means that we won't really be able to sell parts of Poland to Prussia for support against Denmark given that Catherine wants to maintain good relationship with Austria (She needs Austrian cooperation against the Ottomans and to secure her backs in Persian campaign).
For duration of Catherines rule we should focus on research (and gaining influence) as that is the time period that is most stable and Russia will go in wanted direction without our input (we should use this period of stability with competent ruler on the helm to grow our cult and prepare for Napoleonic wars).
Our chance to go at Denmark will come after Napoleonic wars with Vienna congress.
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