How would the presence of a floating castle affect society?

Accelerator

Banned Forever
Banned
Location
Singapore
Let's say that there is a island, the size of Singapore. On that island, lies an island city, covered with great spires of glass and crystal and silver, and when the light hits it, it shines like a beacon.

The island itself is far off the ground. Visible, but not very. If you looked hard at it, you could see that the base is actually quite flat, and that there are inscriptions and markings on the bottom.

The castle itself is stationary, and is above a lake. A small inland sea, if you wish. It has been there since time immemorial. No one knows where it came from.

Sometimes, people hear shouting and quarelling from the floating city. Some times they hear the sounds of festivity coming from there, and great voices and debate. Flashes of light erupt from the city, casting shadows in the night.

How does this affect society?
 
Depends on their power and capabilities, if they are America tier then things get fun but if they are 3rd world tier then they get shut down.
 
It would've been conquered by the 50s at the latest.
 
~5000 BC Mesopotamian carvings showed the flying island blocking the sun on wall carvings.

~350 BC Greek depiction of Elysium took on a distinctly similar look to the flying island.

~40 AD Late December, Jesus Christ was seen on the island by multiple Christians. The Bible comes under question.

1952 USA troops took over the flying island in a daring air raid in blatant violation of international laws. Some witness claimed that the landing was done in the middle of the night on April 1st, but officially USA claimed to have built the island two years prior as a secret project.

1964 American scientists started a movement to open the island to public. US government claimed that it is a "top secrete military project that will protect its citizens from war".

1965 International pressure forced US to open the Island to public. They formally dubbed the island Elysium.

1967 Scientists announced the discovery of a anti-gravity particle that supports the island, tentatively named floaton. Quantum field theory was modified unsuccessfully to account for this particle.

1969 First successful artificial synthesis of floaton in CERN laboratory. The 780 MeV particle was first produced in an accident involving a cup of coffee and a visiting student called Makise Kurisu at LHC.

1971 A theory surfaced that floaton is the anti particle of the theorized graviton.

1972 The aforementioned theory was debunked by up and coming scientist Dexter, who was ridiculed for his lab assistant being a monkey before this discovery. He was promptly dismissed as a delusional lunatic in light of his speech during the Wannabe-Nobel convention. He said "Because monkey is best monkey, so of course I know the answer to everything" when asked how he came up with the proof.

1976 January Soviet Russia fielded first floaton powered aircraft in human history. It's top speed is 12km/s.

1976 May USA fielded its own floaton aircraft that theoretically can break the sound barrier. It exploded in spectacular fashion in front of the entire world. Officially US government claimed it was hijacked by russian spies. An relatively unknown anti-government organization Wikileak claimed that it's actually a budget problem.

1976 June Wikileak was disbanded, forcibly. They swore vengeance, claiming that in 30 years they will reform. The footprint of this organization was systemically wiped from all digital records.

1980 Floaton all across the world suddenly disappeared, on August 7th. It remains the greatest history humanity ever recorded. Some claimed it was God's punishment for humanity's fixation on a phenomenon coined in the the mid 50s as "Loli".

1982 Laboratories from across the world admitted that all the alleged results of floaton experiments and synthesis during the last two years were faked.

1991 Cartoon "Dexter's Lab" was first aired, much to the consternation of the scientific community.

Floaton was never seen since.
 
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For comparison: about the size of Singapore is about 600 square km.
Laputa is 40 square km.
Unlike Laputa, the flying island in question is stationary and also is not actively contacting the ground beneath.
Exactly how far above ground is it?
From ground, only the edges of the island can be seen. Not whatever may lie inland.

Where is the lake? Which societies lie on the shores of the lake?

Europeans achieve the ability to fly in late 18th century - try to launch balloons to overfly the edges of the island and see what is on the island, and land on the island. But landing will be only a few people at a time until 20th century mass airplane airforces.
So what would be the results of 19th century first contact attempts?
 
Eh.... ignore that. The part about balloon flight and contact irrelevant, not the focus.

I just think of the societal implications.
 
Eh.... ignore that. The part about balloon flight and contact irrelevant, not the focus.

I just think of the societal implications.
Well, gosh, Accelerator, until someone tries to make contact there will be very little for people to go on. The net impact would be limited. You don't say when it first appears. I am going to assume, before ordinary humans on the ground develop agriculture--so, no later than the end of the last glacial period. How long it might have been aloft prior to that is open ended. The local gatherer-hunter peoples who live in line of sight of it will have some story to tell about it, but they might as well be stories about the Moon. To be sure there is that lake underneath, which one might guess is where the city was built before it went aloft, the divot left in the bedrock by its removal and ascent, but gatherer-hunter peoples have not got experience making cities so they might or might not theorize the base of the city seen from below would fit into the basin. Nor did you specify it would--I imagine based on what you say, it does, but you could make it bigger or smaller just to gainsay this theory I guess.

So, people living off the land would exist in small number, just a half thousand or so in direct eyeshot of it at any time in their lives I guess--depending on how it is above the local terrain. To these bands it has always been there and its phenomena are in the same category as speculations about clouds or the heavens. Since people can hear sounds like music I suppose they will have firmer ground than usual to populate it with spirits or more or less divine people, but humans do that anyway. (I suspect we have a built in set of neural mechanisms that tend to cause us to project human type intent on all kinds of things, which is functional in our evolved environment--even mindless things follow patterns and supposed this is out of intent is a way of narratively tracking useful observations of their "character." I suspect this development, narrating the existence of surmised intentional beings with agendas and desires, was perhaps the key evolutionary event defining the modern species. It is actually, objectively speaking, irrational, but it serves us well). So matters stand for thousands of years. Eventually, as agriculture spreads and the tendency to develop permanently settled villages and megalithic projects (often intelligible as basically astronomical, assisting with star and planet sightings as well as tracking sun and moon) the people living within eye-shot and easy travel to that vicinity tend to be inspired to adopt towns and make larger cities a bit precociously, with the encouragement of the sky model to inspire them. And the mythic function will probably become a dwelling place for their favored pantheons, unless the memory of ancient lore (which is surprisingly persistent and oddly accurate some of the times we can get independent verification) insists that the place was there long before the ancestors of the current lot invaded, and therefore the gods up there cannot be the ones the current lot's ancestors brought in with them. Don't know if that basic logic will be allowed to prevail or if revisionism will creep in to reconcile historic memory with the egotism of a particular dominant order...for instance the myth might grow from random roots, among people who vaguely know their ancestors invaded some thousand years ago or so, that the migration was caused by their gods, who had in fact always dwelt in this visible heaven, and sought to bring their followers into the view of it from afar. In one century this might be a bit of far-fetched "Fanfic" as it were, connecting dots of legend that had much more reasonable separate explanations, then as the idea inspires it elaborates, the pragmatic roots of the traditional story "evidence" are downplayed and largely forgotten while the elaborations become more and more pointed and skeptics shake their heads in silence; a couple centuries later it is universally taught dogma and no one remembers the skeptics; it is now established fact that the gods always were their own pantheon and there is no contradiction seen with legendary memories of migrating in from thousands of miles away.

And so matters rest until one of two things happen: either the region is the cradle of a major advanced religion, one that can become dominant for post-imperial, medieval and early modern gunpowder civilzations, and the mythology of this unattainable sky paradise is woven right into it. Or instead such a religion invades from outside. Say this sky city is hovering above southwestern Britain--I wonder if the Celtic peoples known to the Romans in Caesar's time would have been there long enough to claim the sky city for their pantheon or just acknowledge it is some sort of fairy kingdom and leave it at that. Sky Sidhe. The Romans come in under Claudius--they've heard of this sky city, it one of the exotic wonders of the world. But it doesn't do anything to impede their gradual conquest.

Well not much...suppose that the city is low enough that some kind of mirrors, sheets of polished bronze or even coated with silver somehow, can shine reflections on the base that people can see very far away. It is now possible for people based near the city to bounce visual heliographic signals, so that people who are more distant can read them; over the range this is possible, a commander based near the city has a communications advantage of sorts. To be sure their enemies can see the signals as readily as their own troop commanders, but the locals know the code, the invaders do not. This might be an effective force multiplier. But resistant British tribes would need a lot more force multiplication that that to stave off their doom! During the Roman period, the sky heliograph effect was noted and recorded, and written up in various Roman books, and Roman forces stationed in southwest Britain took advantage themselves, setting up a regional HQ there and using the sky city to flash general edicts to relays close enough to see, thus speeding up communications a bit. When the Roman legions were withdrawn, the local lords had some idea how to use this system and consolidated a defensive unit--from these days to modern times, a circular region centered on the sky city develops and maintains a distinct political identity named after the city, in various languages--for this realm is still not immune to conquest, just more resistant than a simple weighing of its resources would indicate. For a time the Britons hold out against the Saxons extra long on this front line, and the conquest of Cornwall into England is delayed, and the circular zone becomes an English distinct lordship as it had been distinct under the Cymru. In turn when William's invaders conquer England the English rally and hold on that front a year or so, before collapsing, and the zone becomes a county in the Norman hierarchy, with special specified duties to speed the King's messages along and serve as a bastion of his rule. It remains distinct and sometimes important whenever civil war or invasion wracks England.

But there the matter rests. Other than aiming large mirrors at it to flash signals to people in the surrounds, there is no practical use. No one can climb up. I presume from your descripition no one ever comes down to be questioned or captured. It might as well be a natural phenomenon, some kind of permanant cloud bank or optical illlusion. Realms and religions come and go and wise priests and other theocrats learn, if it was not obvious up front, that ranting against it as pagan or devilish or any such thing does them no good, because there is nothing they can do to banish from the skies and it only makes them look weak trying. Sitting above the region of Glastonbury, the cultural consensus is that it is Avalon of the Arthurian legend, and the legendary court of Arthur had its support and blessing, implying a vague alignment with Christian providence. Perhaps various radical Protestants despise these superstitions and suspect it must be Satanic somehow or other and discourage any attention to it, but they are in the minority since it sits there and exists. The various kingdoms controlling the ground below use it for signal relays, and otherwise it is left to legend and speculation, as real as the Moon in the sky and just as unattainable and less relevant.

And this brings us to modern times, starting around the English Civil War and after...and wherever in the world it might be situated, that is the over all arc of its significance. Whenever a modern scientific mentality and school develops and the place where it floats is brought into that movement's ken, it will come under scrutiny just as the planets do. Maybe it would disrupt acceptance of Newtonian physics---after all, for the action of the fact that what looks like a heavy solid mass not falling, where is the reaction on Earth? But Newtonians will probably explain it away with a handwave...still, it might deter some people from taking Newton as seriously as they did OTL.

Everything changes when balloons are developed. The latest before a major landing attempt would be 1920 I would think, using an airship.
 
Then there is the lake underneath and besides.
The island shelters the water underneath from sunshine - but also from escape of heat to space. Therefore if the climate is seasonal, the water and air beneath would be cool in summer and warm in winter, with winds and currents resulting from this.
How wide is the lake beyond the coast of island?

19th century Europeans exploring Inner Asia commented on complete lack of natives building and using boats on several major lakes, such as Aral Sea, Issyk-Kul and Kukunor.

Observing the phenomena such as various noises coming from the island and lights shining at night require observers to be close enough, in case of lights close enough at night.

If the neighbours have either little reason to settle permanently on coastal promontories near the coast, or actively taboo on this, and settle on bays further away from the island, they might not be in position to hear what sounds issue. Ditto if they either use no boats on the lake, or the boats observe a taboo against approaching the island, or doing so at night. The observations would come from the few who violate taboos, and would be of questionable reliability.
 
At some point some ancient king will attempt to get to the island. Maybe he builds a tower.






It's not high enough.
 
If the local civilizations have the capability to develop balloons, they might get developed earlier instead of the concept staying a scientific curiosity (like steam power to the Romans)
Theoretically, even a copper age civilization could build dirgibles, they would just not be particulary durable.
 
If the local civilizations have the capability to develop balloons, they might get developed earlier instead of the concept staying a scientific curiosity (like steam power to the Romans)
Theoretically, even a copper age civilization could build dirgibles, they would just not be particulary durable.
I think making an airship useful for anything is harder than most people realize. There is this notion that airships are somehow retro, that you can do anything an airplane can do with an airship a generation or more earlier. Not true, it seems to me. Airships and airplanes are different, not one a primitive version of the other. Airships were not really practical for what they were really good for until around the time that airplanes crossed the same horizon, and this is because you need pretty much the same tech to make either work. Pretty much.

Airships are inherently easier to make big, if you have the tech to make them well at all, and have the great wealth to afford all the infrastructure to make and house them. Airplanes are easier to make little, hence enjoy an advantage in early development in that random kooks with bright notions can afford to knock one off in a garage. Most of them die horribly when their bright notion turns out to be kind of silly, but the minority of survivors generally have something real to offer, are generally the ones who turn out to have real vision and foresight and enough methodicalness about them to become great designers and their ideas cross pollinate. Airships are big projects for kooky Counts or major corporations or governments to mess with and their development suffers from that.

But either way, airplane or airship, you wouldn't want to trust your life to either much before WWI, the products that came out of WWI were serviceable, but both had lots of room for improvement. Airships and airplanes became really practical around the same time, the 1920s and '30s.

I think maybe copper age tech or perhaps before could manage to make a balloon of some kind that could lift one or two people tops. Hot air ballooning is actually a lot harder than people assume--again they are probably thinking, well, if hydrogen ballooning was possible in the 19th century, surely hot air was possible earlier? Not reflecting no one is known to have done it before the Montgolfier brothers! So technically yes, a handful of decades--indeed just years--mark the interval between the first hot air balloons and the first hydrogen balloons. And once the European and American faddists got hold of hydrogen they never looked back to hot air! Modern hot air ballooning is a product of post WWII advanced synthetic materials tech, when new "plastics" included high temperature durable fibers to make the balloons out of; prior materials like paper and silk were pretty flammible! Only moderate temperature differences could be sustained, hence huge volumes for pitiful lift. Also modern postwar tech allowed easy cheap access to stuff like propane and the tanks to hold it, and lightweight easily throttled high heat output burners.

Jump back to Flintstones level tech, or a more realistic take on Bronze age or even Classical Roman Hellenistic tech inventories, and what have we left? No flame resistant high strength to weight ratio fabric, no efficient and well controlled heat source..the idea even a balloon is workable before Early Modern levels of tech is pretty laughable to me. Hydrogen might be made to work, if anyone had any idea how to make hydrogen! or store it, or handle it.

An airship is harder. Shaping a gas bag for minimal drag is a less structurally efficient form for lifting the dead weight of the non-gasbag parts. Prior to 1800 or so, what are you going to propel it with? Horses on a treadmill maybe? I've looked into the kinds of airspeeds we might expect large numbers of human "rowers" driving a large hydrogen lifted craft; with highly efficient linkages and very well coordinated propulsion effort, human cranking or pedaling can manage maybe 10 knots, perhaps 15 for a big airship...but what is needed is 45-50 to handle adverse winds.To achieve 3 times the airspeed you need 27 times the power output! An airship powered even by more efficient trained draft animals on treadmills or something like, will be more of an inefficiently structured balloon that can sometimes feebly maneuver a bit, given luck.

Balloons then are not on the horizon until around 1800 and the most primitive airships, 1900 for practical purposes
 
Balloons then are not on the horizon until around 1800 and the most primitive airships, 1900 for practical purposes
Good points. In regards to dirgible propulsion without engines, I would propose sails (tensile strength of the available materials and weight of the whole thing is a hard limit, but you have more room to mount them from than a ship)
 
Good points. In regards to dirgible propulsion without engines, I would propose sails (tensile strength of the available materials and weight of the whole thing is a hard limit, but you have more room to mount them from than a ship)
What good can sails do?

The balloon is floating in air. Assuming it is not so gigantic that wind speed and direction vary significantly over its area, it is all immersed in air moving in the same direction at the same speed; it can experience wind only to the extent that inertia delays it taking up this same drift speed itself. I actually have never ridden in a balloon and I wonder if anyone who has would explain I am wrong about this, but how could it be otherwise?

Now, if you have two balloons joined with a long strong line, one might ascend to an altitude where the wind is blowing in a different direction than the other, and so each would want to drift in a different direction, and the line between them constrains both so they each experience a net wind trying to separate them, and their drift is between the two vectors.

The closest I think we can come to "sail powered airships" is to have "sails" in the form of some kind of kite instead of the two balloons, fly the kite up in the other wind layer and let it provide the tug that the main hull needs. Note that since a single balloon is floating at one level, and should be in a calm because it is moving along with the wind, however fast that wind might be, it would be hard to fly the kite to the other level--once there it would work fine, but how can it ascend in a dead calm? You'd have to put a balloon on it!

Balloons with their vast volume and hence cross section area are already pretty good "sails" really, if you are content to go where the wind blows.

Ships can manage to sail across the wind because of the hydrodynamic effect of their hull cutting through the water, as a practical matter this needs to go deep (ie a keel) or a spread out arrangement like a catamaran might serve. Basically the ship is not going to go sideways in the water so the wind vector resolves into a force along the ship centerline pulling it forward and one tending to try to capsize it abeam. If you could do a similar trick with balloons, having some element constrained to go only along one line and resisting being dragged at right angles, you could "sail" in atmospheric winds. But how are you going to do that?

I've thought of a design (powered as I conceived it) where an airship is tied to the surface of the ocean by a structure that is partially submerged in the water. Basically the purpose is to lower water drag by lifting most but not all mass with the buoyant hull, and having two or three "azipods" submerged to hold it near the surface. I'm not sure this has any point or not! A sailing ship version of this--I never really thought of it. Anyway such a craft would be bound to the water, it could not go over land.
 
Unmanned hot air balloons (Chinese lanterns) are attested in 3rd century AD.
Precisely what were the technical advances that enabled first manned hot air balloon in 1783? Might a manned hot air balloon have been possible in 1683, or in 683?

From the first manned balloon flight (November 1783) to the first manned crossing of Dover Strait (over 30 km, in January 1785) was under 14 months.
Since the flying island is implied as pretty close to the lake shore (seeing lights and hearing noises... likely from shore, not just boats on the lake), it´s probably a shorter crossing.

No steering or propulsion needed. Size of Singapore means the width of the island is comparable to the width of Dover Strait. The balloonist can just prepare the balloon and fuel on lake shore and wait for a suitable weather with wind towards the island. And then stay in the air above the island and land on the opposite shore of the lake, taking note of what is on top of the isle.
 
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