Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
How recent is this?
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
General Exalted Thread
- Location
- The Hague
- Pronouns
- He/Him
While SV is pretty lax overall about talking about other forums, I would prefer it if we didn't get yet more imported drama due to Exalted, of all things. As such, I will be cutting this discussion off here.
Arkalest
ELOP Stan In The Streets, Dromok Under The Sheets
So, I've been toying with an Exalted AU for quite some time...And part of it revolves around re-writing the Abyssals. I've produced a small "intro" of sorts to the whole thimg:
The End Of The Beginning:
The Underworld is where all discarded, broken and forgotten things go. It is a place of constant change and immutability at the same time; An eternal yet ephemeral contradiction which acts as a mirror to the "normal" plane of existence which is Creation; Its own nature is at the eyes of some as abominable and yet necessary as the events which spawned it: The murder of several Primordials at the hands of the creation of Authocton: The Exalted.
Out of the millions of thousands of plans laid down in secrecy by the rebellious Gods, few took seriously in consideration the possibility of the "death" of one or more of the titans which formed the basis of reality itself did not factor in in any of them. After all, such a thing was unthinkable on a variety of reasons that ranged from the theological to the purely mechanical. Forced fetich death was a known possibility...But the outright annihilation of a Primordial was considered a far-fetched possibility at best and a laughably idiotic idea at worst.
Even at the height of their desire for freedom and revenge, most if not all Gods could not- And would not- conceive of dethroning the Alpha and the Omega of their reality. You could clog a river, force its course to change. You could kill the constituent minor god of the river, or the God of Rivers..But you couldn't kill the idea of a river, for it was embedded in the fabric of reality, in the very flesh of the Primordials.
The Exaltation proved this line of thinking wrong.
You could indeed force deathless, endless beings in a state which a mortal would call "death"...Or rather, the closest approximation of death. In their infinite wisdom and infinite nearsightedness they did not design the Lethe to process their pantheon-souls...And frankly, who could blame them?
Strong as they were, the currents of Lethe could not properly process the souls of the titan-kings of Creation, and so they underwent a transformation which defied logic. In a grotesque parody of the First Ignition their dreams, thoughts and emotions metastasized into pale environments and drab, dead replicas of Creation, now imbued with the Necrotic Essence which was the result of Lethe mixing with their wounded souls; They pushed unreality back and substituted it with their own bodies, stuck in a constant cycle of expansion and restriction.. Their souls collapsed inward while trying to process the impossibility of their situation, turning into thought-mausoleum, burying their consciousness within coffins made of pain and delirium.
Even as shadows, the Neverborn could still reshape reality.
Like a spider contracting on itself upon death, those Primordials which had been struck down wrapped their metaphorical limbs around the soft "underside" of Creation, ripping and unraveling it as they plunged into Elsewhere. Those wounds, infected with the Necrotic Essence pouring forth from the noxious tomb-bodies of the Neverborn, ravaged by their half-formed realities and endless nightmares would become known as "Shadowlands".
No one knows how the first Ghosts came to be. The scholar authorities of the First Age believed that the "first batch" was an unlucky casualty: A group of Ghosts who was about to cross into the purifying waters of the Lethe when the Neverborn surged into undeath, dragging them down with them.
More significantly, the Underworld presented an alternative to the mind-erasing embrace of the River of Souls. Not everyone dies at peace with themselves, and nor they die after having concluded
their affairs. Those souls resisted the allure of the cycle, and while searching for something- Anything- which could stave off the inevitable, they found the allure of the Silent Kingdom and flocked to it. Others simply tumbled through the cracks left by the death cries of the Primordials..:Cracks which are still not fully mended.
At the end of the day, it did not matter how, nor why. The Realm of the Restless Dead existed, and it was revealed to the Celestials in a matter of days.
Reports on who first discovered it vary. Several Sidereals claim that it was a faction of Loom-Menders sent by the Maidens themselves that first plunged into the Shadowlands in order to investigate the disturbances in the Loom. Lunars who still hold memories of the First Age believe that it was a Lunar who stumbled into the newly-spawned Underworld while chasing a particularly cunning Rhaksha...But the mostly common-believed opinion is that a few Gods noticed those weirdly shaped prayers coming from somewhere which wasn't Creation- And petitioning for them to be investigated.
The reactions to the discovery of the Underworld ran the whole gamut: From a somewhat piqued interest in the case of several Lunars and a few Sidereals, to utter horror at the perspective that somehow their mission had failed on behalf of the Solars who had been involved with the Primordial whose shades/ wrecks now inhabited the pale imitation of Creation.. Gaia herself was furious: Storming the gate of Yu-Shan in her most terrifying form, she demanded answers to the councils of Gods, threatening to personally send her strongest Soul to finish the job which the Chosen of the Sun started- This time for once and for all. To her, the sight of that pale, unfinished abomination of a demiplane of existence was as harrowing as seeing Luna suffer at the hands of the Primordials...If not more, considering that just like her sisters and brothers, the sight of the Neverborn's unending torment could work as the catalyst for an existential crisis.
She was also supported by the Unconquered Sun himself, who found the Underworld a perversion of nature of the lowest order. The rays of the Daystar could not penetrate down to the unnatural darkness which enveloped the whole plane, and the Neverborn's "survival", if the state in which they lied could be considered "life", was a determent to his victory over the Primordials.
It took the concentrated effort of the Five Maidens and Luna to deter the two of them from laying siege to the Underworld. It is said that the verbal spar between the eight of them raged for an entire month, with both sides presenting enough arguments for their viewpoint to fill an archive or three. Eventually, Luna reminded her lover that, as the Patron Goddess of the Unexplored and of other realms, that the Underworld was her purview. Similarly, the UCS himself was blandished with the promise that his Solars would not be forced to participate in affairs involving the much-hated mirror-reality, and that the Neverborn were to be disposed as soon as possible.
Some malignant souls say that the Maidens decided to sweep the Underworld in order to extend their own influence and power- And most say that they were justified in seeing it as a resource in hindsight.
As a side-note: Many Solars felt a sort of malaise upon witnessing those darkened lands, with a few of them even outright declaring that they'd never visit the Underworld. Now, it could have been intended as a perfectly reasonable reaction (For a Solar). After all, the Neverborns constantly exhaled clouds of Necrotic Essence, and the Sun could not reach the Silent Realm. However, in hindsight it was the indicator of a deeper, much more persistent problem: The Great Curse, which has been spawned from the lamentations of the Neverborn and weaseled itself into the Exalted shards, infecting them with an ounce of madness from the undead titans...But as history demonstrated, it was more than enough. It might not have been the trigger for the Solars' self-destructive spiral, but it surely helped them along. . Even if they were ramblings, half-shouted curses, they still came from the lips of the architects of reality, after all.
The End Of The Beginning:
The Underworld is where all discarded, broken and forgotten things go. It is a place of constant change and immutability at the same time; An eternal yet ephemeral contradiction which acts as a mirror to the "normal" plane of existence which is Creation; Its own nature is at the eyes of some as abominable and yet necessary as the events which spawned it: The murder of several Primordials at the hands of the creation of Authocton: The Exalted.
Out of the millions of thousands of plans laid down in secrecy by the rebellious Gods, few took seriously in consideration the possibility of the "death" of one or more of the titans which formed the basis of reality itself did not factor in in any of them. After all, such a thing was unthinkable on a variety of reasons that ranged from the theological to the purely mechanical. Forced fetich death was a known possibility...But the outright annihilation of a Primordial was considered a far-fetched possibility at best and a laughably idiotic idea at worst.
Even at the height of their desire for freedom and revenge, most if not all Gods could not- And would not- conceive of dethroning the Alpha and the Omega of their reality. You could clog a river, force its course to change. You could kill the constituent minor god of the river, or the God of Rivers..But you couldn't kill the idea of a river, for it was embedded in the fabric of reality, in the very flesh of the Primordials.
The Exaltation proved this line of thinking wrong.
You could indeed force deathless, endless beings in a state which a mortal would call "death"...Or rather, the closest approximation of death. In their infinite wisdom and infinite nearsightedness they did not design the Lethe to process their pantheon-souls...And frankly, who could blame them?
Strong as they were, the currents of Lethe could not properly process the souls of the titan-kings of Creation, and so they underwent a transformation which defied logic. In a grotesque parody of the First Ignition their dreams, thoughts and emotions metastasized into pale environments and drab, dead replicas of Creation, now imbued with the Necrotic Essence which was the result of Lethe mixing with their wounded souls; They pushed unreality back and substituted it with their own bodies, stuck in a constant cycle of expansion and restriction.. Their souls collapsed inward while trying to process the impossibility of their situation, turning into thought-mausoleum, burying their consciousness within coffins made of pain and delirium.
Even as shadows, the Neverborn could still reshape reality.
Like a spider contracting on itself upon death, those Primordials which had been struck down wrapped their metaphorical limbs around the soft "underside" of Creation, ripping and unraveling it as they plunged into Elsewhere. Those wounds, infected with the Necrotic Essence pouring forth from the noxious tomb-bodies of the Neverborn, ravaged by their half-formed realities and endless nightmares would become known as "Shadowlands".
No one knows how the first Ghosts came to be. The scholar authorities of the First Age believed that the "first batch" was an unlucky casualty: A group of Ghosts who was about to cross into the purifying waters of the Lethe when the Neverborn surged into undeath, dragging them down with them.
More significantly, the Underworld presented an alternative to the mind-erasing embrace of the River of Souls. Not everyone dies at peace with themselves, and nor they die after having concluded
their affairs. Those souls resisted the allure of the cycle, and while searching for something- Anything- which could stave off the inevitable, they found the allure of the Silent Kingdom and flocked to it. Others simply tumbled through the cracks left by the death cries of the Primordials..:Cracks which are still not fully mended.
At the end of the day, it did not matter how, nor why. The Realm of the Restless Dead existed, and it was revealed to the Celestials in a matter of days.
Reports on who first discovered it vary. Several Sidereals claim that it was a faction of Loom-Menders sent by the Maidens themselves that first plunged into the Shadowlands in order to investigate the disturbances in the Loom. Lunars who still hold memories of the First Age believe that it was a Lunar who stumbled into the newly-spawned Underworld while chasing a particularly cunning Rhaksha...But the mostly common-believed opinion is that a few Gods noticed those weirdly shaped prayers coming from somewhere which wasn't Creation- And petitioning for them to be investigated.
The reactions to the discovery of the Underworld ran the whole gamut: From a somewhat piqued interest in the case of several Lunars and a few Sidereals, to utter horror at the perspective that somehow their mission had failed on behalf of the Solars who had been involved with the Primordial whose shades/ wrecks now inhabited the pale imitation of Creation.. Gaia herself was furious: Storming the gate of Yu-Shan in her most terrifying form, she demanded answers to the councils of Gods, threatening to personally send her strongest Soul to finish the job which the Chosen of the Sun started- This time for once and for all. To her, the sight of that pale, unfinished abomination of a demiplane of existence was as harrowing as seeing Luna suffer at the hands of the Primordials...If not more, considering that just like her sisters and brothers, the sight of the Neverborn's unending torment could work as the catalyst for an existential crisis.
She was also supported by the Unconquered Sun himself, who found the Underworld a perversion of nature of the lowest order. The rays of the Daystar could not penetrate down to the unnatural darkness which enveloped the whole plane, and the Neverborn's "survival", if the state in which they lied could be considered "life", was a determent to his victory over the Primordials.
It took the concentrated effort of the Five Maidens and Luna to deter the two of them from laying siege to the Underworld. It is said that the verbal spar between the eight of them raged for an entire month, with both sides presenting enough arguments for their viewpoint to fill an archive or three. Eventually, Luna reminded her lover that, as the Patron Goddess of the Unexplored and of other realms, that the Underworld was her purview. Similarly, the UCS himself was blandished with the promise that his Solars would not be forced to participate in affairs involving the much-hated mirror-reality, and that the Neverborn were to be disposed as soon as possible.
Some malignant souls say that the Maidens decided to sweep the Underworld in order to extend their own influence and power- And most say that they were justified in seeing it as a resource in hindsight.
As a side-note: Many Solars felt a sort of malaise upon witnessing those darkened lands, with a few of them even outright declaring that they'd never visit the Underworld. Now, it could have been intended as a perfectly reasonable reaction (For a Solar). After all, the Neverborns constantly exhaled clouds of Necrotic Essence, and the Sun could not reach the Silent Realm. However, in hindsight it was the indicator of a deeper, much more persistent problem: The Great Curse, which has been spawned from the lamentations of the Neverborn and weaseled itself into the Exalted shards, infecting them with an ounce of madness from the undead titans...But as history demonstrated, it was more than enough. It might not have been the trigger for the Solars' self-destructive spiral, but it surely helped them along. . Even if they were ramblings, half-shouted curses, they still came from the lips of the architects of reality, after all.
Whoops that looks like a dick answer because I'm dumb. Sorry. I meant "Yep, that's it."
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Is it just me or could Exalted synergize pretty well with Dark Souls.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Because Mnemon isMnemon saw alerts for new post in Thread.
Mnemon clicked on Thread only to witness someone trying to flame bait AGAIN.
Mnemon cries.
Why do you make Mnemon cries ?
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
Now that I think about it, yeah it does. Mechanically, you have your squishy-as-hell PCs killing gods and demons and whatever-the-fuck-else when one good hit could wreck them. Thematically, Dark Souls fits nicely as either being a somewhat-normal part of the Labyrinth, or maybe the Underworld echo of a dead country.
The PC from Dark Souls fits nicely as an Abyssal too.
Mnemoe!
It's all right. I never got any impression of hostility from that.
Roadie
A plate full of blins and a cat nearby.
Add some spiky armor to get a Mnemoene.
You know, it's the damnedest thing.
I know it's all an act to lure the unwary into easy knifing range and/or pouncing range of all of her immaterial Sinister Slaughter Simian bodyguards, but I still want to hug her and tell her that everything will be alright.
Fucking Social Charms, man.
It's Mnemon. If there is anything that can cause her to look like that the only proper response is to use the Sword of Creation on it. And her. Because it's Mnemon and if she's looking like that there's just no fixing her mind into something that can still protect Creation.
It's Mnemon.
She was a moeblob, right until... you know, she got better. See Aspect Book: Earth for details.
Are there any Feint charms in Martial Arts or Melee?
You know, Charms that make a person think they're using an offensive Charm, so they pull out a defensive Charm, but it's just a trick.
You know, Charms that make a person think they're using an offensive Charm, so they pull out a defensive Charm, but it's just a trick.
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No. Mostly because due to design and play requirements the entire table knows what you are pulling out anyway.
Also, at least in 2e, it'd have to be almost as expensive as whatever Charm you're replacing, or else have a pretty big chance of your opponent seeing through it - 'cause motes are life and if you can feint cheaply even a few times in a fight you'll come out a dozen motes ahead.
That's kind of the idea.
A way to trick your opponent to use more expensive Charms to defend themselves so that in the end, they hopefully mote tap themselves.
Matsci
Grash itsh griah! Rwar arr rawrrawrarar!
This is bad thing. It breaks the game.
Biigoh
Tanuki
- Location
- Tanukia
Mnemon saw alerts for new post in Thread.
Mnemon clicked on Thread only to witness someone trying to flame bait AGAIN.
Mnemon cries.
Why do you make Mnemon cries ?
Auuuuu! Moeblob Mnemon!
So, looking at the debate on the social stats, how would it work if I ran them like this?
Charisma represent Pathos, the appeal to the emotions of the listener. Charisma is used to convince people to do something because it feels right, or just to make them feel. The musician who stirs people to tears has high Charisma, as does the speaker who drives listeners into a patriotic frenzy, or the supposed weakling who convinces others to aid him with artfully applied stabs of guilt. Charisma's weakness is that it's difficult to determine just how an audience will react - you might fill them with joy or anger, but what they do with those emotions is up to them.
Manipulation represents Logos, the appeal to reason. Manipulation is used to convince people that something is true, or that something unpleasant is necessary. The lawyer who can argue every point of precedent in the last century has high Manipulation, as does the teacher calmly working students through mathematical proofs, or the general convincing his king that atrocities are necessary for the greater good. Manipulation's weakness is that it lacks the emotional "punch" of the other abilities - people might be intellectually convinced by it, but it cannot make them feel as though it's true.
Appearance represents Ethos, the appeal to the character of the speaker. Appearance is used to convince people to trust you, or to make sacrifices on your behalf. The fatherly minister whose congregation assumes he's a living saint has high Appearance, as does the beloved king, or the con-man who lures people into trusting him against their better judgement. Appearance's weakness is that it works almost exclusively on a personal scale - while you might be able to convince others to give you gifts and act in your best interests, it has very little ability to move them to act on any scale that doesn't involve you - Appearance may get you out of the draft, but it's unlikely to convince anyone that the war as a whole is wrong.
Charisma represent Pathos, the appeal to the emotions of the listener. Charisma is used to convince people to do something because it feels right, or just to make them feel. The musician who stirs people to tears has high Charisma, as does the speaker who drives listeners into a patriotic frenzy, or the supposed weakling who convinces others to aid him with artfully applied stabs of guilt. Charisma's weakness is that it's difficult to determine just how an audience will react - you might fill them with joy or anger, but what they do with those emotions is up to them.
Manipulation represents Logos, the appeal to reason. Manipulation is used to convince people that something is true, or that something unpleasant is necessary. The lawyer who can argue every point of precedent in the last century has high Manipulation, as does the teacher calmly working students through mathematical proofs, or the general convincing his king that atrocities are necessary for the greater good. Manipulation's weakness is that it lacks the emotional "punch" of the other abilities - people might be intellectually convinced by it, but it cannot make them feel as though it's true.
Appearance represents Ethos, the appeal to the character of the speaker. Appearance is used to convince people to trust you, or to make sacrifices on your behalf. The fatherly minister whose congregation assumes he's a living saint has high Appearance, as does the beloved king, or the con-man who lures people into trusting him against their better judgement. Appearance's weakness is that it works almost exclusively on a personal scale - while you might be able to convince others to give you gifts and act in your best interests, it has very little ability to move them to act on any scale that doesn't involve you - Appearance may get you out of the draft, but it's unlikely to convince anyone that the war as a whole is wrong.
I feel like I should make a joke about personal outrage regarding that second item, but I'm not feeling particularly clever.
EDIT: Because there was confusion, I'm not actually offended. The "personal outrage" would be entirely tongue-in-cheek for the sake of a really hammy joke that I just didn't have the energy to bother creating.
In any case, I didn't see any conclusive evidence that PoH was expressing his own personal opinion about me, or that it was even particularly aimed at me specifically.
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Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
Mind if I steal this? It seems absolutely perfect.
It feels like it would split up all the different kinds of actions very nicely. Though, from this description, it seems like affecting Intimacies with Manipulation would be hard. Is that intentional? Because otherwise it might cripple the stat.
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Fortuna
Graceful Topiary Artist
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. This has potential, I think, but...
It seems like Appearance is to a large extent swallowed by Charisma. And it creates the odd situation where manipulating someone into feeling emotions is Charisma, not Manipulation, and convincing people to follow you relies as much on Appearance as on Charisma, if not more. It also, from my rather selfish perspective, means that a number of Alchemical Charms - mostly Manipulation Charms - would need wholesale rewrites to fit in with the new image of the Attribute.
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
A lot of Lunar Charms would too. But that's just what happens when you start changing around Attributes and Abilities in Exalted. Which is part of the reason that I'm partial to Infernals. They work on themes instead of Attributes or Abilities. I'm actually in the process of an Excellency rewrite for everyone but Infernals to make them a bit more theme-oriented.
An alternative would just be to restructure Charm Trees so that they are under the appropriate Attributes.
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