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Fate/Outer Heaven

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Ah, hold on, let me get my face on.

*Adjusts*

Again. Fucking Nero?
Zack said:
Nero basically Achilles 2.0 roflmao
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Indeed. 2.0.

She comes after Achilles, who's invincibility should by all rights be a prototype of those that come after.
She is less famous than Achilles.
She is less powerful in her legend than Achilles.

Yet, still, her invincibility outstrips Achilles's by fucking miles.
 
Nanimani said:
Ah, hold on, let me get my face on.

*Adjusts*

Again. Fucking Nero?

Indeed. 2.0.

She comes after Achilles, who's invincibility should by all rights be a prototype of those that come after.
She is less famous than Achilles.
She is less powerful in her legend than Achilles.

Yet, still, her invincibility outstrips Achilles's by fucking miles.
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[Something something Whore of Babylon, fame bonus on par with Christ.]
 
Maybe its because Achilles is famous because of his heel. So yes, he is world wide famous, but his weakness is also equally famous, negating the defense he might have had.
 
Sucal said:
Maybe its because Achilles is famous because of his heel. So yes, he is world wide famous, but his weakness is also equally famous, negating the defense he might have had.
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That would manifest as attacks being fated to strike his heel. Maybe something to do with divine help. Nothing to do with the Divinity of the attacker themselves.
 
BlackHadou said:
Apocrypha notes that Achilles is one of a very small handful of heroes who boast worldwide fame. Somehow I doubt it's possible to have that much more fame then him on a world stage.
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[Some load of shit churned out to get Ender's shoulder-Takeuchi to stop whining about a Saberclone needing a buff]

*Keeps drinking, having determined this to be a three drink problem*
 
Buffing Nero would be fine, but to the extent to where her protection is basically Herk's 12 labours, minus the lives, is pretty absurd. Especially since Nero wasn't known for any particular defensive feats.
 
Takoe said:
Eh, BFR is a thing. If I put in some effort I'm sure I could punch her into a position from where she wouldn't be an issue anymore.
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Sucal said:
Worse comes to worse, we send her in Shielder (Enkidu's) direction.
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It's not the powerlevel's fault, as I've said. It's that she has it.

Why not someone actually invincible?
Zack said:
Buffing Nero would be fine, but to the extent to where her protection is basically Herk's 12 labours, minus the lives, is pretty absurd. Especially since Nero wasn't known for any particular defensive feats.
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The protection's way, way, over Herk's 12 labours.
Not a single canon Servant, other than Gilgamesh, Extra Vlad, and actual Divine Spirits can even scratch her.

I mean, how the fuck did she die, then? I seem to recall her getting killed at some point.
 
Eh, I admit that I was expecting her to be strong because of her mount, not because she is literally invincible. Mostly because I thought she'd be riding the beast of the Apocolypse. Oh well, I admit I'm not quite as attached to power levels as long as it makes a good story. Will be looking forward to seeing what the King had after all.
 
Zack said:
Buffing Nero would be fine, but to the extent to where her protection is basically Herk's 12 labours, minus the lives, is pretty absurd. Especially since Nero wasn't known for any particular defensive feats.
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See: Dracula, who needed over 7 Servants to hold him back until Shirou went priest on his ass and used Rite on him.

Nanimani said:
I mean, how the fuck did she die, then? I seem to recall her getting killed at some point.
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Because she didn't have it in life and it's all due to her legend? Because thanks to people thinking Beast of Revelation = Actual Beast instead of Rome and Nero along with other anti-Christian emperors, like how people go Vlad = Dracula.

And, thanks to CCC, we know the play by play on what the Beast and its rider would have. Nero stronk, but only because Beast and misapplied legend makes her stronk.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
See: Dracula, who needed over 7 Servants to hold him back until Shirou went priest on his ass and used Rite on him.


Because she didn't have it in life and it's all due to her legend? Because thanks to people thinking Beast of Revelation = Actual Beast instead of Rome and Nero along with other anti-Christian emperors, like how people go Vlad = Dracula.

And, thanks to CCC, we know the play by play on what the Beast and its rider would have. Nero stronk, but only because Beast and misapplied legend makes her stronk.
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Except Vlad at that point was not even a Servant anymore. He wasn't even Vlad by that point closer to a phenomenon/monster, instead he was nearly at the level of a DAA and would have been at the same level as the Night of Wallachia had he reached the Grail. Not to mention he had even more fame as Dracula due to its popularity around the modern world.

tl;dr Vlad had major boosts from his worldwide reputation in modern times while Nero isn't associated with the Beast as much in current times.

Still, since Nero's under GM control, its better to wait and see.
 
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Zack said:
Except Vlad at that point was not even a Servant anymore. He wasn't even Vlad by that point, instead he was nearly at the level of a DAA and would have been at the same level as the Night of Wallachia had he reached the Grail. Not to mention he had even more fame as Dracula due to its popularity around the modern world.
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Higher, actually.
When someone asked how the Servants in Fuyuki stacked up to the DAAs, this was Nasu's response.
Depends on compatibility, but basically Servants will have the slightly higher advantage. With Saber, Lancer, and Archer classes, we ought to be able to relax and see decent fights. In particular, Saber has THAT sort of Noble Phantasms so against guys like the 27 Ancestors that overwhelm by material quantity and alienness, she'd be REALLY tough.
....Well, there are also some of those tough Ancestors that can withstand a direct hit from Excalibur-class attacks, but against those guys that just (emphasis on just; other stats don't match up) have wickedly high HP, Lancer-aniki'd be pretty tough.
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So someone who could hold off all seven Servants at once is far above the average DAA. Of course, DAAs have huge variance, so I can't say he's above them all. ORT'd still reck him, but Nrvnqsr'd die like a bitch, you know?
 
Nanimani said:
Higher, actually.
When someone asked how the Servants in Fuyuki stacked up to the DAAs, this was Nasu's response.

So someone who could hold off all seven Servants at once is far above the average DAA. Of course, DAAs have huge variance, so I can't say he's above them all. ORT'd still reck him, but Nrvnqsr'd die like a bitch, you know?
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Yeah agreed, Unnamed Vampire/Vlad was basically a top tier DAA by then.

By rights though, if not for the bullsht explanation on how Vlad's bite counted as a gift, Achilles could have held him off indefinitely.
 
*wakes up from nap*

Hey guys, what'd I- Ooh, a reply for me from Ender! Let's see what-

EnderofWorlds said:
Name: Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus
Class: Rider
Alignment: Chaotic Evil

Parameters:
Strength: D
Agility: A
Endurance: D
Mana: B
Luck: A

Class Skills:
Riding (EX): At this rank, all things can be ridden, even the likes of dragon-kind.

Magic Resistance (D): Attained solely through the class container, hence why it's so low

Personal Skills:
Innocent Monster (A): As Rider, Nero becomes the Whore of Babylon she has been decried as. Though 'The Beast' was a symbol of the Roman Empire, it is Nero who shines at the forefront of what Christians hated and stood as the monument of all they believed to be evil and wrong.

Ten Crowns (A++): Authority derived from the beast, the sovereignty of all the world bestowed from an offshoot of the Earth Mother's Authority; Pontia Theron. It effectively renders all attempts to harm Nero null and void, for no one can deny the authority that is granted to her. However, those with high enough divinity such that they are more god than man, or those with Protection of the Faith of the highest degree can harm her, though the damage will still be reduced.

Imperial Privilege (EX): The acquisition of skills that one should not possess in a short period of time, due to personal wishes. With a rank above A, even skills that affect and alter the body can be attained. Enhanced by her new authority, it is now more akin to the Crimson Founding Emperor's version of this skill; thus, all manner of skills are in her grasp.

Migraine (X): A curse inherited from the birthplace of one's previous life. Due suffering from chronic headaches, the success rate of mental Skills decreases considerably. Sealed due to a poultice created by Roma to treat such headaches, for he loves all of his children; all of his Roma.
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...I need to go and cry for a moment.
 
Nanimani said:
Ah, this shit.
Did it say Nero would have the Beast in Rider class?
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Nasu wanted to give Nero the Beast but ultimately didn't because it'd be too OP. Given that there's a Mother Harlot Servant in Grand Order's future, voiced by Nero's VA, it's kinda a given that Rider Nero gets to ride the Beast. And becomes Mother Harlot like how Berserker Vlad becomes Dracula.

Zack said:
tl;dr Vlad had major boosts from his worldwide reputation in modern times while Nero isn't associated with the Beast as much in current times.
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Rep helps out Vlad, and here it's concept that boosts Nero; even if not as famous, Beast is still Beast and all that entails. And if anything Nero is even more associated with the Beast, now that more and more historians have come to the agreement that 'The Beast' is a stand in for the Roman Empire and it's anti-Christian stance and oppression, of which Nero is the poster child of. Because Nero really really hated Christianity.

Sucal said:
Eh, I admit that I was expecting her to be strong because of her mount, not because she is literally invincible. Mostly because I thought she'd be riding the beast of the Apocolypse. Oh well, I admit I'm not quite as attached to power levels as long as it makes a good story. Will be looking forward to seeing what the King had after all.
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It is all because of the mount; Mother Harlot aka Whore of Babylon derives all authority from the Beast she rides upon, and in Revelations when it stops supporting her she gets slaughtered by the very beast she rode upon. So if the Beast goes away or is turned against her, she's screwed.
 
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