Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[BirdBodhisattva]

Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Spoiler: Or if you'd rather hear it from someone else

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.

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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)

 

[Pittauro]

Actually, @BirdBodhisattva is there anything stopping us from making more than one cult, considering our Lore neutrality?

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It might as well be easier to make a focus-less cult at that point. It's not like even in this Moth-cult there aren't not-moth followers.

But yeah, at some point I expect us to make our own cult

With Applejack and ..ok, I can't get a good rhyme for hookers.

 

[BirdBodhisattva]

Actually, @BirdBodhisattva is there anything stopping us from making more than one cult, considering our Lore neutrality? Like, in the original game it made sense as a game abstraction to keep an already complicated system from getting more so, and keep you from just making a ton of exalted for every Lore, but here it just seems like it would be functional as an action focus?
also, rampant curiosity, but are any of our fellow Cultists supposed to be based on the disciple characters from the original CS? And if so, who is who?

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I actually see no true need for your cult to have a "focus", to be honest. Even your current cult is somewhat balanced, seeing as each member of the Inner Circle pursues their own Lore.
The difference is that the Master is focused, so it obviously means Moth adepts will grow more easily and deeply.
But Master Velvet would have no focus bar the one you choose.
And on the disciple characters, who knows...



On other news, overhauled the Informational Threadmark with Ritual Grimoire. Might be useful information, but not for right now. And I wont comment on the current voting situation because we have around 18 hours to go.

EDIT: Might I add that, suddenly, artifact hoarding is not as useless as expected.

 

[Ericwinter]

I actually see no true need for your cult to have a "focus", to be honest. Even your current cult is somewhat balanced, seeing as each member of the Inner Circle pursues their own Lore.
The difference is that the Master is focused, so it obviously means Moth adepts will grow more easily and deeply.
But Master Velvet would have no focus bar the one you choose.
And on the disciple characters, who knows...

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So... we're not really constrained by the "can only exalt those whose Lore matches the Cult's Lore," thing, and thus it doesn't really matter? Fair enough.

On other news, overhauled the Informational Threadmark with Ritual Grimoire. Might be useful information, but not for right now. And I wont comment on the current voting situation because we have around 18 hours to go.

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Ooh, let's go see--

May be "dosed" to stop at a certain point, as in "before target goes insane" or "as soon as target is sufficiently frightened/intimidated".

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Oh. Oh dear. Uh, does this mean the Master could easily have stopped before Luna suffered the mental damage she did? Because that's what this looks like to me.

 

[NMS]

So... we're not really constrained by the "can only exalt those whose Lore matches the Cult's Lore," thing, and thus it doesn't really matter? Fair enough.

Ooh, let's go see--

Oh. Oh dear. Uh, does this mean the Master could easily have stopped before Luna suffered the mental damage she did? Because that's what this looks like to me.

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A) The Master was under the assumption that the Alicorns were the cause of the World's impeding doom.

B) As the thread noted, The Master was incredibly... eager, to get the ritual underway. Since its not a necessary part, they might have cut that corner to get it up and running faster.

 

[PrimalShadow]

Oh. Oh dear. Uh, does this mean the Master could easily have stopped before Luna suffered the mental damage she did? Because that's what this looks like to me.

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From the very start, this was a ritual aimed at hurting Luna. The Master said as much, even if it was more a matter of finding weaknesses that we could leverage later rather than inflicting immediate harm.

I don't think the psychological damage was the point, exactly, but I suspect that the Master would have found it to be a nice bonus.


I don't know if the Master can be a good friend, but unless I've misread his character he is absolutely not a good friend to Luna or Celestia, at the very least.

 

[Ericwinter]

A) The Master was under the assumption that the Alicorns were the cause of the World's impeding doom.

B) As the thread noted, The Master was incredibly... eager, to get the ritual underway. Since its not a necessary part, they might have cut that corner to get it up and running faster.

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From the very start, this was a ritual aimed at hurting Luna. The Master said as much, even if it was more a matter of finding weaknesses that we could leverage later rather than inflicting immediate harm.

I don't think the psychological damage was the point, exactly, but I suspect that the Master would have found it to be a nice bonus.


I don't know if the Master can be a good friend, but unless I've misread his character he is absolutely not a good friend to Luna or Celestia, at the very least.

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Fair enough, I was just under the impression that we weren't really sure if it was an accident, and basically the Master just saying "meh, what happened happened, I had no control over it", or them actively ignoring something that could have--if not spared Luna herself damage--prevented the loss of... thirty two lives, was it? A whole bunch of lives, basically, and from a more practical standpoint made it clear somebody attacked Luna, rather than, for example, her simply managing to recover her memories on her own. With this, I feel enitrely comfortable placing the blame for those deaths entirely on the Master's shoulders, and definitely feel we crossed a line.

 

[HAHAHAHAH-*KAFF*]

While I feel there is justification in keeping close to the Master I don't believe that t should be encouraged. Seeing from the memories of Luna, she was trying to protect Equestria but fell victim due to her ignorance of both of her nature and her enemies. Our Master saw that she was trying to protect Equestria with good intentions but still is unnecessarily hostile to them and wants them dead. It feels like the Master is stubborn and set in his ways and even if anyone were to present an alternative it would be rejected.

From the very start, this was a ritual aimed at hurting Luna. The Master said as much, even if it was more a matter of finding weaknesses that we could leverage later rather than inflicting immediate harm.

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I thought the ritual would be an attack on mental defenses. A hit and run of examining memories before booking it when defenses shore up again, not cause trauma-inducing damage to the moon girl who was trying to do their best to protect Equestria in a (though she didn't know it) bad situation.
In general, the whole Master's attitude towards the Princesses even after seeing their goodwill proves his untrustworthiness to me. So betrayal isn't unwise it looks like something Velvet should rely on. After all, mothers should set examples for their little girls. Even if the said mother is part of a conspiracy cult.

 

[PrimalShadow]

Fair enough, I was just under the impression that we weren't really sure if it was an accident, and basically the Master just saying "meh, what happened happened, I had no control over it", or them actively ignoring something that could have--if not spared Luna herself damage--prevented the loss of... thirty two lives, was it? A whole bunch of lives, basically, and from a more practical standpoint made it clear somebody attacked Luna, rather than, for example, her simply managing to recover her memories on her own. With this, I feel enitrely comfortable placing the blame for those deaths entirely on the Master's shoulders, and definitely feel we crossed a line.

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In the Master's defense, I doubted they knew how deep they needed to go to get the information he wanted/needed, or had any sort of expectations about what it would take to make Luna freak out in an explosive manner the way she did.

So I feel like it is a bit much to attribute the casualties in the castle to the Master's malice. The worse that can be attributed to them is neglect, in failing to make sure that the pony-shaped superweapon they was giving nightmares wouldn't do anything permanent upon waking. But it is not like they had much control of that either; the trauma wasn't exactly aimed, so to speak.

While I feel there is justification in keeping close to the Master I don't believe that t should be encouraged. Seeing from the memories of Luna, she was trying to protect Equestria but fell victim due to her ignorance of both of her nature and her enemies. Our Master saw that she was trying to protect Equestria with good intentions but still is unnecessarily hostile to them and wants them dead. It feels like the Master is stubborn and set in his ways and even if anyone were to present an alternative it would be rejected.

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Note that at this point the Master doesn't want Luna dead; see their bit about pawns potentially changing hands, or possibly even being promoted to stronger pieces.

I thought the ritual would be an attack on mental defenses. A hit and run of examining memories before booking it when defenses shore up again, not cause trauma-inducing damage to the moon girl who was trying to do their best to protect Equestria in a (though she didn't know it) bad situation.

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Fair enough. My expectations were much like yours, actually; something about getting into her mind and raiding her memories. I did think it might be a bit trauma-inducing, but certainly not in the way that the actual ritual turned out to be.

In general, the whole Master's attitude towards the Princesses even after seeing their goodwill proves his untrustworthiness to me. So betrayal isn't unwise it looks like something Velvet should rely on. After all, mothers should set examples for their little girls.

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I'll note that the Master's issue with Luna after seeing her memories wasn't a matter of goodwill, but rather one of ignorance and provenance.

the alicorn Luna knew too little. She was witness and victim, and her crime was ignorance, both in the past and today. The fate that befell her long ago will be the same that shall befall Equestria if the alicorns keep to their work, but we know now that even the alicorns are young. They were invited into this world, they were borne here, and as it is proper for the law of birth they came without knowledge of wisdom. They are no better than foals when it comes to certain realizations.

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She will always be a detestable outsider, her arrival heralding that of other unwelcome guests, each greater and more abominable than the last, but… she was also made a pawn. She is a pawn of Harmony. She has made covenant with the very cause of Equestria's danger.

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The master isn't saying that Luna is a bad because she wants to do bad things; he is saying that she is bad because she inadvertently contributes to evil, either by her nature as an outsider or by her actions as a pawn of Harmony.

 

[Ericwinter]

In the Master's defense, I doubted they knew how deep they needed to go to get the information he wanted/needed, or had any sort of expectations about what it would take to make Luna freak out in an explosive manner the way she did.

So I feel like it is a bit much to attribute the casualties in the castle to the Master's malice. The worse that can be attributed to them is neglect, in failing to make sure that the pony-shaped superweapon they was giving nightmares wouldn't do anything permanent upon waking. But it is not like they had much control of that either; the trauma wasn't exactly aimed, so to speak.

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Ah, to clarify, I'm not claiming malice, so much as purposeful neglect, which is still different from accidental neglect. Like, trying an experiment that you have no idea what to expect from, and it causing an explosion? That's accidental neglect, and I wouldn't expect anybody to have developed special protections against explosion--for example, using a blast-proof bunker--before doing so. Doing an experiment that you know has a decent chance of exploding, however, and choosing to do it in a populated area because you couldn't be bothered, or counted the resulting crater as a win? Yeah, I'm going to judge that, hard. A person can't be blamed for not protecting against every eventuality. They can, however, be blamed for not protecting against expected results. And I don't know about you, but to me, forcing someone to relive memories about what caused them to try and destroy the entire world can easily be expected to be highly traumatic. When you consider said attempts to destroy the world the first time they went through them... Maybe I'm just better at reading people than a fictional character in a fictional universe, but traumatizing demigoddesses seems like one of those things nobody should want if they give even a single fuck about anything around them.

 

[Lord Warlock]

So seeing as we have probably discussed most of what is to discussed about this, do we have a rough plan about what needs to be done next turn?

Because we obviously have a problem to solve, the question is about how?

We could go looking for Luna straight away but I don't really think we have the tools to calm her, so we should probably attempt to acquire some Heart and And Grail, should we neglect our job position a bit to reach this?

The master is willing to teach us up to level 3 in lore and 1 teaching in Heart will get us to level 2, we need 2 scraps of Grail to reach level 2. We have 2 rituals available that can help us one of which we perform free of charge once a month and doubles the Aspects effect on a roll and the second being "The calling of Influence" that can give us +10/20/30 depending on how high the DC we think we can clear is.

What I do think we should consider is that while neglecting our job would be suspicious neglecting our family would make them worried about us and we absolutely can't have that.

 

[zxzx24]

Getting ready to try and induct luna isnt neglecting our job, it's doing it.

 

[Pittauro]

Getting ready to try and induct luna isnt neglecting our job, it's doing it.

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Nah, our job is to administer our farms!

The cult is more like a hobby

 

[zxzx24]

Maybe we can get in on the mane six's effort to find Luna?

 

[permeakra]

Also my point about the elements of harmony isn't that they defeated a worm. It's that they SAVED the infected.

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The question is, how did they do it and if their understanding of "save princess Luna" is similar to yours and mine? Because, you know, magic in MLP perfectly can create copies of persons, bring a person across dimensions (and maybe timeline) and reshape memories.

 

[zxzx24]

The question is, how did they do it and if their understanding of "save princess Luna" is similar to yours and mine? Because, you know, magic in MLP perfectly can create copies of persons, bring a person across dimensions (and maybe timeline) and reshape memories.

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Assuming the memories harmony hid from luna are accurate? They absolutely cured someone of worm infection.

 

[Kamico]

...in later seasons of MLP, the remnant of Nightmare Moon still exists as Tantabus.

Let's hope that here, it is but a Worm corpse?

 

[permeakra]

Assuming the memories harmony hid from luna are accurate?

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Harmony decided to lock the memories behind a lock, nothing more. It doesn't say anything about the source or the reason, or if Luna was actually saved, since Harmony perfectly could read the memories and transcribe them onto a new soul. And, given CS lore, it is more plausible than actually saving Luna.

 

[zxzx24]

Harmony decided to lock the memories behind a lock, nothing more. It doesn't say anything about the source or the reason, or if Luna was actually saved, since Harmony perfectly could read the memories and transcribe them onto a new soul. And, given CS lore, it is more plausible than actually saving Luna.

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Do we have any evidence that suggests she isnt who she seems?

 

[Bakkasama]

So seeing as we have probably discussed most of what is to discussed about this, do we have a rough plan about what needs to be done next turn?

Because we obviously have a problem to solve, the question is about how?

We could go looking for Luna straight away but I don't really think we have the tools to calm her, so we should probably attempt to acquire some Heart and And Grail, should we neglect our job position a bit to reach this?

The master is willing to teach us up to level 3 in lore and 1 teaching in Heart will get us to level 2, we need 2 scraps of Grail to reach level 2. We have 2 rituals available that can help us one of which we perform free of charge once a month and doubles the Aspects effect on a roll and the second being "The calling of Influence" that can give us +10/20/30 depending on how high the DC we think we can clear is.

What I do think we should consider is that while neglecting our job would be suspicious neglecting our family would make them worried about us and we absolutely can't have that.

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Well, we still have to get our marching orders from Master to know what they want us to focus on. Admitedly, it is very likely that they will ask us to find Luna, but the chance exists -even if it is small- that they would ask someone else since we already told the rest of the inner circle how to reach the dreamlands.

 

[permeakra]

Do we have any evidence that suggests she isnt who she seems?

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Define "who she seems". She's certainly A princess Luna. But that's all.

We are talking about MLP/Cultist Simulator fusion. CS is quite lovecraftian, you literally shouldn't trust your eyes and common sense when dealing with its lore. Since we are talking about fusion, and since Harmony is just as much of an entity as Mansus, we should consider Harmony the same way we consider Mansus: as an eldritch force with unknown goals and unclear capabilities.

TBF, Harmony is quite eldritch even in MLP canon, except it is silently implied to be benevolent. But in this quest it causes thing that apparently lead to desctruction of the world...

I mean, seriously. CS is made by a man behind Sunless Sea. Which has this interesting snippet

Spoiler: an invitation to beheading

Place your head in the hollow. Await the blade, and your death, that you may become a candle for the multitude

[......]

After the sacrifice, when the captain's neck has been cleanly severed and their blood pooled on the steps, the pithing process begins. The outer integument is peeled away and their bones, organs, muscles removed. This remnant will be given false life with the glyphs, so that it may wait with a bright sword in the chapel until one day, another sacrifice may come. The old executioner will be retired and given to the sea.

The captain's skin will be filled with glory. The attendants will place it in the mould and pour the wax donated by lesser celebrants. The wick will be emplaced, down through the crown of the head to the hollow of the groin. The Priest will recite the lessons once more, and replace the captain's eyes in the skin of the sockets for the living wax to grasp them. The odour of searing will fade. The woman from the Second City will coax the flesh with oils until it resembles life. The glyphs will be imparted and the chest will heave with false breath.

At last you will rise and take your name. You will leave the chapel in the shape of the captain, and take your place aboard the captain's ship. No one will ever know. The differences will be invisible. Perhaps one day a sweetheart will trace the scar around your neck and ask laughingly, were you once beheaded? And you will shrug and answer, "Only once."

 

[Pittauro]

The question is, how did they do it and if their understanding of "save princess Luna" is similar to yours and mine? Because, you know, magic in MLP perfectly can create copies of persons, bring a person across dimensions (and maybe timeline) and reshape memories.

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Assuming the memories harmony hid from luna are accurate? They absolutely cured someone of worm infection.

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the presence of the sealed memories kinda proves that she's the REAL Luna, just with the traumatic memories sealed.

I'm still hoping the seal on most of these memories was meant to be temporary though. The fact only ONE memory door was sealed by the element of Magic gives me hope for that.

Also I wouldn't really say magic allow to copy someone perfectly. I assume you're talking about the Mirror Pool, and the Pinkies that came out of that one were basically caricatures.

...in later seasons of MLP, the remnant of Nightmare Moon still exists as Tantabus.

Let's hope that here, it is but a Worm corpse?

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the Tantabus was not a remnant of Nightmare Moon. It was a dream construct made by Luna with the express purpose of giving herself nightmares.

It's basically the mlp version of her cutting herself as a form of self-inflicted punishment.

Define "who she seems". She's certainly A princess Luna. But that's all.

We are talking about MPL/Cultist Simulator fusion. CS is quite lovecraftian, you literally shouldn't trust your eyes and common sense when dealing with its lore. Since we are talking about fusion, and since Harmony is just as much of an entity as Mansus, we should consider Harmony the same way we consider Mansus: as an eldritch force with unknown goals and unclear capabilities.

TBF, Harmony is quite eldritch even in MLP canon, except it is silently implied to be benevolent. But in this quest it causes thing that apparently lead to desctruction of the world...

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While it's technically possible that Luna is not actually the original Luna, I have to go with the simplest and most likely explanation.

I mean, what's simpler and more likely? That The Elements purified Luna, removed the Worm and sealed her memories (ESPECIALLY the ones of her torture/becoming always deader), or that they

1)Killed Luna and the Worm
2)Created a copy of Luna with all her powers AND memories, but without the worm
3)Sealed the newly copied memories

And again, while this is a Cultist Simulator work, it's also MLP. THere's certainly darkness here, as we can see from the Worms, but MLP comes with its own brand of magic and hope.

All we know about Harmony here is that it's making the world better, and in doing so its attracting the attention of the most evil evil who ever eviled.

The Master seems to believe it likely that Harmony WANTS to be found and preyed upon by the worms. I think it's more likely that it's either ignorance, or part of a plan to fight the worms.

After all, while they're strong, they're not quite invincible. Maybe Harmony has another way. Or maybe, as I said, it's just ignorant.

 

[permeakra]

I mean, what's simpler and more likely?

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Given CS Lore? That it isn't the same Luna that was banished. That's kinda the point of Worms in CS.

All we know about Harmony here is that it's making the world better

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Nope, what we know is that it makes end of the world a more immediate concern. Whether by ignorance or malevolence isn't clear.

 

[Pittauro]

Given CS Lore? That it isn't the same Luna that was banished. That's kinda the point of Worms in CS.

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and my reply will be the same, that given MLP lore it's instead more likely this is the same Luna. Until we get more information/proof against this, that's what I'll consider the simplest explanation.

If this was really just a clone, there was really no reason to copy the memories of her torture. And if what the elements did was basically destroy the body but actually save the soul (and implant it in another body), than she's basically the same Luna anyway. It's not the body that really matters afterall, but the soul.

On a secondary thought though, maybe the Elements could save Luna only because she's NOT just a normal mortal, but an Alicorn. It's possible that her soul is simply THAT much stronger than normal, that it could be saved even after a thousand year of possession/infection.

And if we want to mix CS and mlp lore, maybe Luna and Celestia are sort of the reincarnation of Longs/Hours that decided to go back to the Wake?

They might simply be ANOTHER kind of eldritch beings, but we don't really have a way to tell either way as of right now

 

[permeakra]

If this was really just a clone, there was really no reason to copy the memories of her torture. And if what the elements did was basically destroy the body but actually save the soul (and implant it in another body), than she's basically the same Luna anyway. It's not the body that really matters afterall, but the soul.

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Soul might be important, but what matters is experience and, thus, memories, since they shape person. Locking memories is a mind-rape and a force using it cannot be considered a force of good, period. Traumatic memories should be built over, not forgotten.

And that's the point: this Luna might be *anything*. It might be original Luna. It might be a clone. It might be a version of Luna from different universe/timeline with memories bled over. ANYTHING. You say that Harmony is powerful. True. But it doesn't make it automatically your friend, and even if it is your friend, its understanding of what would benefit you might be dramatically different from yours.

Hense, going for Harmony or Alicorns at this point would be an act of idiocy. It might be a right move, but with info at hand it just as much can be a suicide. I don't want a Bad End yet.

 

[Pittauro]

Soul might be important, but what matters is experience and, thus, memories, since they shape person. Locking memories is a mind-rape and a force using it cannot be considered a force of good, period. Traumatic memories should be built over, not forgotten.

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normally I'd agree about this, but I'm willing to make an exception for the memories of a THOUSAND YEARS OF LOVECRAFTIAN TORTURE.

The fact different memories had seals of different strenght also leaves me with some hope that at least most of these seals were made with the explicit purpose of slowly fade with time, which would make sense. Canon MLP Luna seemed to remember her past after all.

If the sealed memories (except for the torture) was a temporary measure, than it's not that bad.

Also Soul is likely VERY important here, simply because we're not talking about a normal mortal, but an ALICORN. Something that came from outside the world. Her soul is likely to be different, more powerful than a normal one.

mh.. I'm now wondering, are Twilight and Cadance eldritch beings as well, or are they different from the alicorn sisters?

And that's the point: this Luna might be *anything*. It might be original Luna. It might be a clone. It might be a version of Luna from different universe/timeline with memories bled over. ANYTHING. You say that Harmony is powerful. True. But it doesn't make it automatically your friend, and even if it is your friend, its understanding of what would benefit you might be dramatically different from yours.

Hense, going for Harmony or Alicorns at this point would be an act of idiocy. It might be a right move, but with info at hand it just as much can be a suicide. I don't want a Bad End yet.

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well, the currently winning votes are about either cautious trust or cautiously prepare for a betrayal. They're pretty far from extreme/impulsive actions, so we have time to decide who's worthy of our full trust.

I'll say that Harmony hasn't really done anything yet deserving of suspicion though. It has literally made life better for every pony (though admittedly it didn't do much outside of Equestria itself), and any danger it's causing is easily explainable as ignorance, not malice.

If we go with the MLP canon version of Harmony, the Tree of Harmony (from which the elements come from) only really developes a self AFTER the School of Friendship is opened. Right now it's basically meant to be a more abstract force/entity.

Of course there might be more to Harmony than just the Tree and the Elements. After all the Master itself talked about the Fires of Harmony, which makes me think of the Fires of Friendship that banished the Windigos, and that happened BEFORE the Tree and the elements were a thing. Before Discord too, actually.