Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[BirdBodhisattva]

Dear reader! Whether you are new here, archive-reading and whatnot, or you are already someone who has been with us for quite a while, I would like to say a few words that I believe are best kept close to mind.

-This is an MLP quest. And more importantly, none of us are gratuitously cruel. So good things will happen on this quest, and I hope that enough good things have already happened to prove that.
-This is also a horror quest, so bad things will happen. Bad things might happen to good characters if you are not able to protect them, and you most certainly will not be able to intervene if you lack the tools to do so.
-And finally, this is a quest in which you jostle with powers greater than yourself, with all that it entails.

Please, do keep those things in mind as you go forward. But ultimately, this is also a quest in which it is hoped we all have fun! So if any of the above points is not exactly your cup of tea, or somehow make the experience as a whole "not worth it", then this quest might not be for you. Which is fine! Individual tastes are a thing, so don't think any more about it if you don't want to read anymore. And regardless, I hope you have a lovely day!

Spoiler: Or if you'd rather hear it from someone else

PSA for whoever needs to hear it:

Readers should take their own mental health into consideration when voting and not subject themselves to triggering narrative elements like rape or constant mental torture of a friend just for the Greatest Good of a world that doesn't exist.

If those are fine for you or Regrettable is even more triggering, then GREAT! More power to you. But you aren't a bad or selfish person for picking the option that keeps the characters you've emotionally connected with safe. [REDACTED for spoiler warning]

This is a high intensity quest that doesn't hold back when it comes to horror and negative consequences. Take care of yourself.

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(Quote slightly edited to avoid spoilers)

 

[Greymere]

Not really. While you need talent or dedication to reach level 2, you both of those to reach level 3.

You can't even become branded if you don't manage level 3.

In practice, level 3s are going to be a lot more common than even candidates to immortality, let alone those who actually manages to secure a place among the ranks of Long.

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Talent, dedication, and resources. You can't forget the resources.

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Yeah, I think its... talent or dedication for Level 1, both for Level 2, then both plus resources for Level 3. I don't think we have any WoG on what is 'necessary' to reach Level 4, but I'd imagine it has something to do with coming to terms with your Realization and/or the nature of the Lore? Then Level 5 is probably just "being capable of Sacrament", since those seem to be a trial all on their own, if you're doing your personal Sacrament, or you need to be good enough to summon a Name willing to give you one.

Meanwhile Velvet is over here casually collecting Realizations

 

[Ericwinter]

I mean, resources are external, and you can, theoretically, acquire them yourself.

You can't acquire talent if you lack it, and you certainly can acquire whatever it takes to progress further.

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True, it's just the way you said it made it seem like you weren't remembering the resources part.

Yeah, I think its... talent or dedication for Level 1, both for Level 2, then both plus resources for Level 3.

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IIRC it was just any one, two, or all of the three. It's been a while though so I'm not entirely sure.

It would be weird if sufficient resources couldn't at least get you to Level One though.

 

[Starlit Horizon]

You do get an afterlife in CS though which is pretty rad, especially compared to not getting an afterlife.

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Based on Luna's parents, there's at least an option.

You can imply that it's exclusive option, but there's precise opposite of anything suggesting that.

Plus, there's always the afterlife called Nowhere

Yeah, I think its... talent or dedication for Level 1, both for Level 2, then both plus resources for Level 3. I don't think we have any WoG on what is 'necessary' to reach Level 4, but I'd imagine it has something to do with coming to terms with your Realization and/or the nature of the Lore? Then Level 5 is probably just "being capable of Sacrament", since those seem to be a trial all on their own, if you're doing your personal Sacrament, or you need to be good enough to summon a Name willing to give you one.

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Precise original quote:

That said, you can expect every last pony in the cult to be at Level 1 of his Lore. But for many ponies, that is already enough, either because they find that interesting enough or because that's their limit.
A rough estimate would be that reaching Level 2 requires talent OR dedication, and that Level 3 certainly requires talent AND dedication, so the number of ponies reaching said levels decreases dramatically as the level increases.

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Edit because Moth'd:

True, it's just the way you said it made it seem like you weren't remembering the resources part.

IIRC it was just any one, two, or all of the three. It's been a while though so I'm not entirely sure.

It would be weird if sufficient resources couldn't at least get you to Level One though.

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No, while resources are logical inclusion, I didn't mention it because original word of bird didn't.

 

[Greymere]

Precise original quote:

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Ahhh okay. So Level 1 is basically "standard" for any Lore-initiated pony, Level 2 requires you to be talented or dedicated, and Level 3 requires you to be talented and dedicated.

Level 4 is probably where resources start to come into play then. Makes sense too; higher level Lore stuff is expensive.

 

[Ericwinter]

No, while resources are logical inclusion, I didn't mention it because original word of bird didn't.

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Honestly I took it as "your cult has enough resources to standardize level one" but I can see where that's not necessarily correct.

 

[zxzx24]

Look, in CS a person with gumption, drive and decent time management skills can, by nothing more than the sweat off their brow and an escalating series of morally dubious actions, ascend past their mortal coil and take a place in a pantheon of soulless husks working to keep the world a cold a miserable place.

In MLP the best you can hope for is MAYOR.

Monarchy is the true horror.

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Dark Magic has a lot of (nebulous) power to offer you my friend. (possibly)

 

[Ericwinter]

MOTH: Level 1 ( [The Master] + [1/2] )
LANTERN: Level 1 ( [The Master] )
FORGE: Level 2 ( [The Master] + [4/2] )
EDGE: Level 0 ( [The Master] + [3/2] )
WINTER: Level 1 ( [The Master] + [2/2] )
HEART: Level 2 ( [The Master] + [2/2 + 3/2] )
GRAIL: Level 2 ( [The Master] + [2/2 + 3/2] )
SECRET HISTORIES: Level 1 ( [The Master] + [3/2] )
KNOCK: Level 2 ( [The Master] + [Daughter-of-Axes] + [1/3 + 2/3 + 3/3] )

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… Oh dear god I almost forgot that the Cult just straight up doesn't have Edge without Comet.

Well, okay, they have the Windigoes, but those are as useful as having a pocket nuke is, and hard to summon besides.

 

[Starlit Horizon]

Ahhh okay. So Level 1 is basically "standard" for any Lore-initiated pony, Level 2 requires you to be talented or dedicated, and Level 3 requires you to be talented and dedicated.

Level 4 is probably where resources start to come into play then. Makes sense too; higher level Lore stuff is expensive.

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If it was just resource bottleneck cult could have expected to have nearly as much level 4s as it has level 3s, at least long term, which IIRC is not true.

I think there was a mention of something like "maybe a couple level 3, but only one level 4 per lore".

It takes something else, something more to move further.

Although I am honestly not quite sure, so maybe don't quote me on that.

 

[Greymere]

… Oh dear god I almost forgot that the Cult just straight up doesn't have Edge without Comet.

Well, okay, they have the Windigoes, but those are as useful as having a pocket nuke is, and hard to summon besides.

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Windigos are also extremely unsubtle. Everyone's going to know the minute you summon an unjar'd Windigo. But yeah, not much chance of an Edge assassin sneaking into our house

I guess we were kind of lucky in hindsight to not have really read a lot Edge stuff, since it means the cult is basically useless at combat w/o summons atm.

 

[Starlit Horizon]

Also note that as far as Velvet is concerned, she can elevate anyone at all to level 4 with person touch (from ruling on teaching confidants, I think, but this time I am sure that such ruling was made).

As such, unless it's just game simplification (which it honestly can be, but whatever) really good tutor can replace at least talent and whatever it takes to go to level 4.

Velvet be scary, news at 11.

 

[Ericwinter]

Windigos are also extremely unsubtle. Everyone's going to know the minute you summon an unjar'd Windigo. But yeah, not much chance of an Edge assassin sneaking into our house

I guess we were kind of lucky in hindsight to not have really read a lot Edge stuff, since it means the cult is basically useless at combat w/o summons atm.

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Not much Moth, either, ironically. Though I guess the Master covers that well enough. And Lantern is also getting gimped when we steal Jade.

Heck, if we can get rid of Windy, that's gonna be the vast majority of their firepower just gone.

Also note that as far as Velvet is concerned, she can elevate anyone at all to level 4 with person touch (from ruling on teaching confidants, I think, but this time I am sure that such ruling was made).

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Here:

"Named" followers follow a different rule, as follows:

-Enlightened: Major Lore is level 0, Minor Lore is not applied.

-Initiate: Major Lore is level 1, Minor Lore is level 0.

-Disciple: Major Lore is level 3, Minor Lore is level 1.

-Seeker: Major Lore is level 4, Minor Lore is level 2.

-Exalted: Major Lore is Level 5, Minor Lore is level 3.

-In order for a "Named" follower to reach a level, they must learn directly from you. You must have enough Lore levels to satisfy their desired level-up, and spend a PERSONAL action on said level-up.

-Should the Bright Library have enough levels to satisfy a Confidant leveling-up needs, they will automatically attempt to level up every turn on their own, without action expenditure. (This will involve a dice roll against a hidden test)

-Confidants can still be ordered to level up on their own in order to "bypass" said test. This order will use the Bright Library's level, since it involves their own dedication in poring over the available reading material without your supervision or interference.

-A pony can only go up a single level per turn.

-There will be other hurdles involved, especially when attempting to turn a "Named" follower into an Exalted.

-Further leveling, or other tamperings, will be elaborated upon later.

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[Starlit Horizon]

Not much smith, either, ironically. Though I guess the Master covers that well enough. And Lantern is also getting gimped when we steal Jade.

Heck, if we can get rid of Windy, that's gonna be the vast majority of their firepower just gone.

Here:

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Somehow I remember random quotes from the middle of thread well enough to find them on moment's notice, but can't recall actual threadmark. I guess this is how it is.

Anyway, this means that presumably good enough material - or, in another age, resources - could catapult you up even if you are talented as brick, I guess.

Or maybe even self learning does involve a hint or two from Velvet, and those are that impactful.

It would fit the situation with hintchasers, at least.

 

[Ericwinter]

Or maybe even self learning does involve a hint or two from Velvet, and those are that impactful.

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Keep in mind how we've been teaching Selene.

 

[Starlit Horizon]

Keep in mind how we've been teaching Selene.

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Selene is not normal anything, to be honest, so not really a proof of anything.

Plus, Velvet naturally spends a lot more time with her (or arranging her time) than I would expect her to spend with her confidants.

Still, a point, yes.

 

[Ericwinter]

Hmm. You know, I wonder if Comet will even keep any of his Edge levels after this. It is possible, in extreme circumstances, to discard Lore knowledge, as evidenced here:

[] You left. You broke. You galloped away, screaming, and you arrived home limping, your leg cramped with debilitating pain. No more of this. No more.: You do not want to have anything to do with this anymore. The ritual was too wrong, the memories of Princess Luna too vivid. The worms were too frightening.

-You will NOT learn from the Opening Lessons.
-You will NOT take note of the Deep Observations.
-You will DENY the Terrible Revelation.
-You will immediately break ties with your cult. A further option will be opened as to whether you wish too KEEP or FORGET your current Mansus Lore. There is no way to know how your Master, and the cult, will react.
-The quest will change very much indeed.

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But I'm not sure of how that would work for someone so high in it, and with a Brand no less. I'm also not sure if he would want to, depending on just what sort of resolution Fluttershy can lead him to. On the one hand, Edge is largely responsible for this whole mess, especially too much Edge, but on the other she won here by accepting him, not denying him.

There's also the question of his affinity. I can't really see him coming out of this without some kind of affinity change, though what specifically I'm not entirely sure. Harmony being the hand behind Fluttershy muddies the water, though Grail wouldn't go entirely amiss in the aftermath.

 

[zxzx24]

Keep in mind how we've been teaching Selene.

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Very. Very carefully.

 

[Byzantine]

I mean for the comparison Harmony gives everyone something. And cutie marks do not appear to be a small thing.

Only a very select few can channel significant amounts of it, but that seems… pretty typical and is no different than CS?

 

[reborn214]

So on our betrayal checklist.

Ritual Stuff We need More keys
-Find a solution to the constant threat of "The End is Beautiful" ritual.
-Find a solution to the constant threat of "Path Through Nightmares" ritual.
-Find a solution to the "Reflection of the Tapestry" scrying ritual, should it be used against you.

Stuff we mostly solved
-Find a solution to the problem that is Comet Feet. (Thank you Fluttershy)

Stuff we are going to do in a bit
-Commence preparations to save Twilight Sparkle. (We will see how this turns out)

Stuff we need to do.
-Find a solution to your family's passive safety (Ponyville is a high-cult influence town. Solutions would be to DECREASE said influence in Ponyville, or make preparations to move your family to another city upon a Trigger Event)

I really don't see a way to subvert the entire cult under our command. After trying an mini-revolt at my workplace, I realize people are very unwilling to shake a ships captain unless there is a huge reward or the boot is on their neck personally. We aren't willing to do what needs to be done with Windy so either eternity in jail or murder it is for Windy.

I guess we need to ask for a lot more keys from Daughter of Axes and to start taking down the cult influence around town.

You know this is pretty evil, but it occurs to me that we could just like summon 2 Mare-in-the-lights, and bring daughter of axes to slaughter the cult headquarters no survivors, and since Master doesn't pop up there is a good chance they wouldn't meet much resistance for most of the above problems. Doing a drive-by murder at Manhattan would fix our rival situation since no survivors. We would have to like distance ourselves from the drive by murder though but hiding evidence is easier when most people who can testify against you are dead or a spooky name thingy.

I guess since we are part of the feds now we could replace Mare-in-the-lights with Royal Guards if we have a convincingly enough lie to toss all these people in the slammer forever, but that has its own problems tied to it. We have the witnesses to testify. The problem is that we can't implicate ourselves with them at our rival would totally try to drag us down with them.

 

[Greymere]

You know this is pretty evil, but it occurs to me that we could just like summon 2 Mare-in-the-lights, and bring daughter of axes to slaughter the cult headquarters no survivors, and since Master doesn't pop up there is a good chance they wouldn't meet much resistance for most of the above problems. Doing a drive-by murder at Manhattan would fix our rival situation since no survivors. We would have to like distance ourselves from the drive by murder though but hiding evidence is easier when most people who can testify against you are dead or a spooky name thingy.

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It'd also be diving right over the metaphorical morality cliff. Plus, most of the cult members aren't really responsible for most of the heinous shit the cult gets up to, so I'm against it on principle. Well, besides just "I would rather not commit mass murder". I object to it on both moral and pragmatic grounds, let's go with that.

Plus, if the Master suddenly woke up with the bulk of their cult gone... uh, I don't think we would survive for much longer after that.

Edit:

Also, regarding ritual defenses... I'm pretty sure that the Wrong Keys only work on offensive rituals? And RotT isn't. But at the same time, RotT defense is pretty low on the priority list (as in literally the last thing) so we're probably good if we leave without an immediate answer.

Edit 2:

I guess we need to ask for a lot more keys from Daughter of Axes and to start taking down the cult influence around town.

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Don't forget we also need to finish our cult dissociation, if the Incarnadesence-boosted dissociation action doesn't finish it this turn.

 

[zxzx24]

Also finding the key that only opens for the doa. So we don't lose her like we did the baldomare.

And to prevent the cult from summoning the doa.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Ritual Stuff We need More keys
-Find a solution to the constant threat of "The End is Beautiful" ritual.
-Find a solution to the constant threat of "Path Through Nightmares" ritual.
-Find a solution to the "Reflection of the Tapestry" scrying ritual, should it be used against you.

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Wrong Keys solve the first two.

-Find a solution to your family's passive safety (Ponyville is a high-cult influence town. Solutions would be to DECREASE said influence in Ponyville, or make preparations to move your family to another city upon a Trigger Event)

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Easiest and best is to flip the cult members into the Bureau. Vast majority of ponies, would either prefer that setup, or not care. And given the cult was a Moth cult it not inconceivable to set it up so that the transition is basically unnoticeable to the majority.

 

[Greymere]

Also finding the key that only opens for the doa. So we don't lose her like we did the baldomare.

And to prevent the cult from summoning the doa.

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The timing is... going to be really tight if we're trying to get her in her first summon cycle. Especially since Jade's actions are probably going to be tied up doing Selene's Knock stuff for the next couple of turns.

Easiest and best is to flip the cult members into the Bureau. Vast majority of ponies, would either prefer that setup, or not care. And given the cult was a Moth cult it not inconceivable to set it up so that the transition is basically unnoticeable to the majority.

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You can't just... recruit random people en masse into a government organization...

Plus like, Bird has pointed out before that once you start stealing cult members for your own powerbase, you've now become competition and thus more of a problem. Which is a problem, because we're trying not to be (more of) a problem to the Master so they don't immediately come after us.

 

[zxzx24]

It is not lost on me that. "Keep the DOA around" is low on the threads priority list -w-

 

[Ros and Los]

Man, it has been forever and a half since I have been part of this but it is good to see things going well all the same. Now, I have a lot to catch up on and more than a little bit lost so there is not much I can comment on.

… Oh dear god I almost forgot that the Cult just straight up doesn't have Edge without Comet.

Well, okay, they have the Windigoes, but those are as useful as having a pocket nuke is, and hard to summon besides.

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I will note that when it comes to silencing troublemakers, Edge is not the only one to worry about.

Winter does love the quiet after all.

...which the cult is not much better at than Edge so somewhat of a moot point besides what you have said about Windy.

 

[Greymere]

It is not lost on me that. "Keep the DOA around" is low on the threads priority list -w-

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I mean. Personally, for me, its not. But at the same time, we have priority on summoning her as long as we sacrifice a single Wrong key, she's only ever gone for a single turn at a time, and there's a lot of other stuff that we need to do that's also urgent, some of which has a time limit. Like making sure we can resummon Baldomare (who we don't have priority on, and therefore need to roll as high as possible, which means BITS), or finding a secure ritual location so we can actually summon things on the regular without looking suspicious (like, say, Mares-in-the-Light bodyguards), or getting more Heart so we don't fail Selene's IotH.

Like, I think we can probably find Frangiclave before she leaves. I just don't think we're likely to have the time or bits to actually get it before she times out.

Edit: And that's not including any Fleeting Actions Bird decides to throw our way, or if Twilight's going to need some immediate follow-up, or whatever we're going to be expected to do as the Director of a fledgling Bureau.