Dawn of the Void (Worm/ZnT)

Taylor's vacations are weird.

Hope she gets some form of powers back. I mean, she already has Gandalfr and Queen Admin is still active due to only half of it being shot, so. . .

Administration of weaponry? Tinker abilities? Telekinetic manipulation of things arbitrarily dubbed weapons by the Gandalfr power?
 
Taylor's vacations are weird.

Hope she gets some form of powers back. I mean, she already has Gandalfr and Queen Admin is still active due to only half of it being shot, so. . .

Administration of weaponry? Tinker abilities? Telekinetic manipulation of things arbitrarily dubbed weapons by the Gandalfr power?
Yeah, from the skitter facts section: "Skitter once tried the rebelious teenager thing. She now controls the city along with 5 other teenagers." Taylor does not have the QA shard back yet. Its piggybacking on the Gandalfr connection, biding its time.
 
I can see your point here; however until I get better at being a writer, which this is mean't to help me do, expect some of this. I will however try and tone down the scene jumping some in future chapters.

There was no conversation. As for the whole Louise being locked in, she just summoned a cripple. the familiar reflects the mage; Right now she's having a good, nice long cry all the while raging at the universe for being unfair in true teenager fashion.

what Guiche stomp? there was none.
Her summoning a cripple isn't a point to mope about how bad that makes her look. It's point to be fucking terrified about OH MY God I summoned a cripple and laid her out oh fuck she's unconscious and siezing and bleeding oh fuck is she gonna die what did I do.

Ya know panic and guilt cause Louise has some basic human decency. And you wrote a person being rather dramatically painfully hurt in front of her and Louise is willing to choke on her pride to keep saito from getting himself killed.

I'm saying she's out of character and you wrote too many derailer points you really should adress.
 
Look, @einargs, I think you should rip this whole thing into five or so different parts, and turn each part into a full chapter. This still reads like an outline rather than an actual fic. The versions of the characters you chose are their completely flanderized versions, and it's painful to read.

A fic where Taylor post-Khepri gets summoned has potential. As-is, it is very nearly unworkable in its current state. As a suggestion, look to fitzgerald of Spacebattles' Princess Butterfly for inspiration. It's where a slightly AU Skitter is summoned.
 
Look, @einargs, I think you should rip this whole thing into five or so different parts, and turn each part into a full chapter. This still reads like an outline rather than an actual fic. The versions of the characters you chose are their completely flanderized versions, and it's painful to read.

A fic where Taylor post-Khepri gets summoned has potential. As-is, it is very nearly unworkable in its current state. As a suggestion, look to fitzgerald of Spacebattles' Princess Butterfly for inspiration. It's where a slightly AU Skitter is summoned.
I find myself agreeing wholly with T7W.
I completely get your points; however i'm just not good enough at writing right now to do that. This is so that I can get better while getting criticism, which helps me get better. In other words, give useful criticism. I'm not going to go back and completely redo the snippet again. I'm going to try and continue on while getting better, and then maybe rewrite this, or start something new.
TL; DR: give actually useful criticism instead of just saying that its painful to read, or just don't read it.
 
I was saying that the plight of the commoner isn't dire enough for any kind of violent revolution to not do more harm than good. Governmental reform would be better. Taylor also for all her trust issues can get attached really easily to people who tap her issues when she has neither fetters or friends. Further she is perfectly okay with Nobles and authority when she's the one with it at her back putting down the boot.
Totally agreed. Especially when in the society of ZnT a "anti-mage" revolution is pretty much impossible for the foreseeable future.
Also looking at the new chapter there are issues. Most of which were in the old.

It's introspection heavy and far more tell than show.

It tries for really and unnecessarily flowery descriptions where simpler things would be more use.
I would most certainly agree with this, except for the flowery description issue. Personally I feel the issue is that the prose switches back and forth from simple and flowery, never really settling on either.
Tell than show is also a big issue, one of the reasons I was pushing for some of the introspection paragraphs to be spread out.
Taylor sounds more like a troper or spacebattler describing her surrounding, and makes tattletale seeming deductions instead of general smarts and doesn't reference things like magic capes.
There are a couple of other sections like that as well, especially when she wakes up in the infirmary. The deductions don't always make a heap of sense.
Taylor is still bound after you go to great lengths to mention how keyed up she is and you seem to misunderstand just how close Louise would have to get to bind Taylor. Taylor's basically 6 feet tall while Louise is somewhere between 4'11'' and 5'4''. They have to be practically hugging or Taylor kneeling. Keyed or or relaxed Taylor wouldn't let her that close. She's try to communicate in which case things stall out with the language barrier and your story kicks into another direction entirely.
Actually, now that I think about it. Is it ever really explained how Taylor starts speaking the language? Now I need to re-read to make sure.
Beyond that there was time where Louise could complain about the summoning. There is also no seeming reaction to the missing arm. Which is kind of important.

the Passing of time is kinda screwy too.
I feel that this chapter could still be two or three smaller ones, with the passage of time being more defined by each chapter.
The Unique summoning chant is Awesum in a bad way. It's overly specific and not really attached to any frame of reference louise could name. It's also not very moving? The from the bottom of my heart may be old but it cliche in that it's almost begging for help which Louise really is.
Firstly : (
Good point, when I wrote the chant I was thinking more High Gothic Shakespearean "Chant of the mighty Sorcerer", but really this should be the impassioned pleas of a young girl who has almost given up hope.
I just got caught up in my "Language of Shakespeare" wank, probably should have thought about it a bit more.
The Rune Shard fight is still a cliche dragging your story down with how they both don't work that way and seemingly aren't noticed at all and how it causes enough mental damage and stress to cause severe nosebleeds. If you're going to keep it focus on it. This is something that's really important medically and that demand immediate focus and attention instead of dispearing into the plot ether. The Water mage should be doing tests and really shouldn't be calling louise the Zero if he wants to keep his job.
I don't mind the fight existing, but I feel it would work better if were weren't told about it. Maybe later on it could start to become clear that something is screwy.
Given all the things you had happen surrounding the binding, how much the binding means to her personally, and what Taylor looks like. Louise should have ya know came to the infirmary? Where the doctor would keep her or already be there because brain bleeds are serious. Not have Taylor go to her room alone.
Honestly, it also makes little sense from a more pragmatic standpoint. Why would they trust Taylor to make it there on her own.
The martial arts practice scene is kind of utterly pointless and trips the worst fault or writing about the pinpoints of fighting early writers fall into. Namely unless it's deeply woven into the plot skip it.
100% agree, it's a fine bit of writing but feels totally out of place.
Taylor sleeping outside of Louise's room is silly for early sequence reasons for the the point she's just ask a maid or a teacher for a place to rest. Or be taken to Louise's room when she is called earlier by the Doctor who should be restricting Taylor to bed rest cause she's crippled and passed out and was nose bleeding, and had flashing runes on her.
I eel you, Taylor is pragmatic, why the hell would she sleep on the ground?
Louise's self recrimination scene is still hollow nasty and not sympathetic. It also shouldn't happen cause ya know infirmary and them talking should happen. And Louise is kind of depressed? She'd probably not be talking about disobedience and more about knocking a crippled woman out and giving her a seizure which is important. Very. Important to human beings.
I don't mind it, but agree that it's still a bit too heavy handed. Needs to be broken up into smaller chunks and spread across multiple chapters.
Also the no human familiars for a while should be no human familiar at all known ever. The only humanoids that aren't rhyme dragons are void familiars and if they're known in an AU Louise's character changes rapidly.
I thought it was well known that Brimir had a humanoid familiar?
 
Last edited:
I seriously doubt that's common knowledge anymore, otherwise Kirche and the others wouldn't be making fun of Louise for summoning a commoner, they'd be going "Holy crap! You summoned a human like the Founder did thousands of years ago! How could the Zero do something like that!?"
Yeah, but you have to understand that Brimir is basically Jesus. There is a total mental disconnect between someone like Brimir and Louise. I mean, if someone had one or two common qualities with the founder of basically your entire civilization, would you think they could be linked?

(Jesus is used as a comparison and is not in anyway an endorsement of Christianity. I merely do not know much about other faiths than the 3 main monotheistic ones. the same argument could hold true for Buddha, or any other semi-divine figure.)
 
Last edited:
Yeah, but you have to understand that Brimir is basically Jesus. There is a total mental disconnect between someone like Brimir and Louise. I mean, if someone had one or two common qualities with the founder of basically your entire civilization, would you think they could be linked?

(Jesus is used as a comparison and is not in anyway an endorsement of Christianity. I merely do not know much about other faiths than the 3 main monotheistic ones. the same argument could hold true for Buddha, or any other semi-divine figure.)
Yeah and you have to understand that your interpretation is not canon and makes no sense. It has been 6000 years. No one remember he summoned humans save people with void knowledge and they aren't tipping their hand.

It wouldn't be one or two common qualities either. 'It would be the defining quality of the're magic. The familiar and the runes which determine elemental affinity. If it's in recent memory they'd know how to test for the powers, and check the runes versus obscure but still there texts.
 
Hmm... good point. I'll go back and change that part. Thank you for pointing that out.
EDIT: the edit has been made.
 
Last edited:
pretty much. I have planstm for the Guiche duel... many, many different plans.
Having Guiche decide that beating up a one armed girl is a cool and honourable thing to do stinks of rigid adherence to the SameOldShit™. The only reason for it is "that's what all the OTHER fics did". If you really are going to have a Guiche fight then please have a damn good explanation for it.
 
Last edited:
Having Guiche decide that beating up a one armed girl is a cool and honourable thing to do stinks of rigid adherence to the SameOldShit™. The only reason for it is "that's what all the OTHER fics did". If you really are going to have a Guiche fight then please have a damn good explanation for it.
... I used the term Guiche duel to mean plot device that shows off the familiars skills to louise. Taylor is not going to end up fighting him, mostly because I don't want him dead. My biggest problem right now is what to do otherwise; there are a lot of different options, but i'm currently leaning towards a varient of Montemerancy, or just not having it happen. Eitherway, someone like Guiche is far more likely to be trying to get into Taylor's pants than fight her...
*has idea*
*scribble scribble*
also: since I just noticed the thread mark thing, I will be using that.
 
Last edited:
... I used the term Guiche duel to mean plot device that shows off the familiars skills to louise. Taylor is not going to end up fighting him, mostly because I don't want him dead. My biggest problem right now is what to do otherwise; there are a lot of different options, but i'm currently leaning towards a varient of Montemerancy, or just not having it happen. Eitherway, someone like Guiche is far more likely to be trying to get into Taylor's pants than fight her...
*has idea*
*scribble scribble*
also: since I just noticed the thread mark thing, I will be using that.
Eh.

She's an adult a combatant, in Louise's care and has taken it upon herself to start teaching louise in your plot.

You don't need to do anything to show off her skills but have her show off a bit of her know how? When they talk to each other.
 
Eh.

She's an adult a combatant, in Louise's care and has taken it upon herself to start teaching louise in your plot.

You don't need to do anything to show off her skills but have her show off a bit of her know how? When they talk to each other.
Quite true, which is why I mentioned one of the possibilities being nothing happening. On the advice of @Nemuikougi specifically i'm going to be trying to just let the characters write themselves, but either way I think that it should be rather believable. *Starts praying to the flying spaghetti monster*
 
Quite true, which is why I mentioned one of the possibilities being nothing happening. On the advice of @Nemuikougi specifically i'm going to be trying to just let the characters write themselves, but either way I think that it should be rather believable. *Starts praying to the flying spaghetti monster*
Don't try to hard to jam the story on rails the characters won't flow to. No one's going to start shit with taylor cause that's a one way road to looking like a punk. Taylor's not going to be starting any highschool bullshit but maybe trying to stop the systematic anihilation of her charges self worth due to having been there so hard. And even then she's more liable to go drill saergeant nasty and researcher whilma and figure out the cape scene.
 
Don't try to hard to jam the story on rails the characters won't flow to. No one's going to start shit with taylor cause that's a one way road to looking like a punk. Taylor's not going to be starting any highschool bullshit but maybe trying to stop the systematic anihilation of her charges self worth due to having been there so hard. And even then she's more liable to go drill saergeant nasty and researcher whilma and figure out the cape scene.
Yeah, that's basically what @Nemuikougi said; in the last snippet there were certain parts where the characters did stuff that didn't make sense for them; it just advanced the plot. I'm going to be trying to let the characters flow more, and what I have in mind if there is a fight neatly sidesteps most of your problems as well as making sense in terms of the involved characters.

On a different topic, I'm really surprised that no one noticed the hints in siesta's section, as well as the stuff about QA. In other words, what do you guys think about the plot so far?
 
You know, I think the shard would be practically giddy right about now. It is used to the usual near-magic physics fuckery that the Entities abused, but this is out right "Fuck you, I'm a wizard!" type magic. Even if there is some rudimentary scientific method behind its use, this is completely new territory for the shard.

Also, never forget, shards propagate like a bad STD. I have the oddest feeling that Siesta will trigger over the Count Mott fiasco, mostly because I don't really see Taylor going out of her way to get to know her. She's going to end up as his concubine, trigger and then murderise him. Because this is a Worm crossover, things will get worse better skitter.
 
I completely get your points; however i'm just not good enough at writing right now to do that. This is so that I can get better while getting criticism, which helps me get better. In other words, give useful criticism. I'm not going to go back and completely redo the snippet again. I'm going to try and continue on while getting better, and then maybe rewrite this, or start something new.
TL; DR: give actually useful criticism instead of just saying that its painful to read, or just don't read it.
They are trying to give you helpful criticism and advice, namely to expand this into real actual chapters. As is it comes of as almost a glorified timeline more than a story so far. There is very little dialogue, and there should be much more. You have lots of things happening, people are going to talk to each other about what's going on and trying to understand it, and they should be shown doing this BEFORE anything else happens. It's fine to have a particular story you want to tell, but don't feel like you have to write the characters walking a path directly down a checklist to get to the end.

You have your setup, you have an understanding of the characters involved, have them INTERACT. That is your story, the plot arises from the organic interactions of your characters and new elements get added to steer them vaguely in the direction of your overall story as you introduce new characters and have the existing ones encounter new events.

Hopefully this hasn't come off as too condescending as that was not my intention. I just felt the need to try and break my advice down as simply as I could when I saw you didn't seem to see the point in earlier similar suggestions from others.
 
They are trying to give you helpful criticism and advice, namely to expand this into real actual chapters. As is it comes of as almost a glorified timeline more than a story so far. There is very little dialogue, and there should be much more. You have lots of things happening, people are going to talk to each other about what's going on and trying to understand it, and they should be shown doing this BEFORE anything else happens. It's fine to have a particular story you want to tell, but don't feel like you have to write the characters walking a path directly down a checklist to get to the end.

You have your setup, you have an understanding of the characters involved, have them INTERACT. That is your story, the plot arises from the organic interactions of your characters and new elements get added to steer them vaguely in the direction of your overall story as you introduce new characters and have the existing ones encounter new events.

Hopefully this hasn't come off as too condescending as that was not my intention. I just felt the need to try and break my advice down as simply as I could when I saw you didn't seem to see the point in earlier similar suggestions from others.
Hm. I get your point about the chapters, but like I said: I really don't want to go back and expand and rewrite the chapter. I'm a very lazy person by default; writing is to a large degree my attempt to fix that. Looking back I think I came off a little to harsh, and in doing so misrepresented my point. Saying that there needs to be more interaction and dialogue is very useful advice for when the weekend arrives and I can afford to write; but I'm going to be trying to look forward, not look behind. I really want to build up momentum, make it part of my routine.
TL; DR: I won't be expanding the chapter; instead I'll be writing a new one, and because of that general advice like to add more dialogue and interaction is very useful.
 
Hm. I get your point about the chapters, but like I said: I really don't want to go back and expand and rewrite the chapter. I'm a very lazy person by default; writing is to a large degree my attempt to fix that. Looking back I think I came off a little to harsh, and in doing so misrepresented my point. Saying that there needs to be more interaction and dialogue is very useful advice for when the weekend arrives and I can afford to write; but I'm going to be trying to look forward, not look behind. I really want to build up momentum, make it part of my routine.
TL; DR: I won't be expanding the chapter; instead I'll be writing a new one, and because of that general advice like to add more dialogue and interaction is very useful.
That's fine and perfectly understandable. I'm really looking forward to seeing where you take this as I love the premise you started from.

Since you mention you'd prefer criticism to focus in advise for future chapters I would like to touch on a more technically and possibly stylistic choice that I noticed and I don't believe has been mentioned yet: In several scenes you seem to be going out if your way to head off some of the common ZnT fandom tropes and shut them down hard with one or two lines of narration, for instance when you go over Taylor's reaction to learning of Louise's explosive spell results.

The narrative text immediately tells us that the explosions are useless for attack, or even as smoke screens,and then goes on to say that not even her aim can be improved.

This comes off as very strange in the context of where you put it in the story as Taylor just thinks this at the reader with no input from any scenes that would establish these facts, no characters having told get these things, and no passage of time in story for her to have learned any of this information.

This is completely aside from the point that these facts are dead wrong from the scenes in the ZnT anime showing the effects of Louise's spells.

My main point in all of this is to say that moving forward becare of showing and not telling the reader things, and be careful of giving the reader info dumps, especially ones that the character giving them has no real way of knowing.
 
Last edited:
Also, never forget, shards propagate like a bad STD. I have the oddest feeling that Siesta will trigger over the Count Mott fiasco, mostly because I don't really see Taylor going out of her way to get to know her. She's going to end up as his concubine, trigger and then murderise him. Because this is a Worm crossover, things will get worse better skitter.
Mott is anime canon only though.

But you don't really need to get that far for a trigger event. Reconquista's invasion of Tarbes would probably do it well enough.
 
Mott is anime canon only though.

But you don't really need to get that far for a trigger event. Reconquista's invasion of Tarbes would probably do it well enough.
True. And should the prince die, I could see Henrietta triggering in the aftermath of the zombie arc.
Hmm... And maybe a Tinker or Thinker Tabitha? She has enough shit going down to apply nicely. For that matter, so does Kirche, if you think about what she's said about her home life.
Heh that's be a thing, wouldn't it? If Tabitha triggers over not being strong enough and goes Brute, while Kirche's long suffering issues with her family make her a Thinker.

Hell, there are quite a few Trigger worthy events throughout ZnT, isn't there?
 
Last edited:
True. And should the prince die, I could see Henrietta triggering in the aftermath of the zombie arc.
Hmm... And maybe a Tinker or Thinker Tabitha? She has enough shit going down to apply nicely. For that matter, so does Kirche, if you think about what she's said about her home life.

Hell, there are quite a few Trigger worthy events throughout ZnT, isn't there?

Tinkers are gonna be stuck with something only slightly better than Bamboo Technology due to the lack of tech in Halkegenia. They might be able to make something truly Tinker-worthy if they can get their hands on some decently advanced stuff that fell through a portal from a modern Earth, but that'd take some serious luck or plot contrivance considering modern artifacts are rare, most of them are just trinkets like bathing suits, and the majority of the good stuff is in the Pope's private vault in Romalia.
 
Back
Top