Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
[] Draft Plan
Infrastructure 5/5 110R
-[]Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2) 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 28/160: 10 resources per die) (-1 Logistics, +6 Housing)
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 3 die 90R %
(Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) (+3 Logistics)
Heavy Industry 4/4 95R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3) 1 die 20R %
(Progress 199/300: 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 3 dice 75R %
(Progress 146/500: 25 resources per die) (+8 Capital Goods, -4 Labor, -8 Energy)
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 70R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3) 3 dice 60R %
(Progress 260/320: 20 resources per die) (+2 Capital Goods, +1 Energy)
-[] Civilian Glider Development 1 die 10R 92%
(Progress 0/40: 10 resources per die)
Agriculture 3/3 40R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3) 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 163/350: 10 resources per die) (+4 Food over 16 turns, +16 Consumer Goods over 16 turns) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die) (High Priority)
Tiberium 6/6 50R
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Stage) 2 dice 10R %
(Progress 2/200: 5 resources per die) (Small additional income trickle [5 Resources])
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 2) 1 die 20R %
(Progress 20/100: 20 resources per die) (+50 processing capacity [-250 during refits])
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 1 die 20R %
(Progress 148/200: 20 resources per die) (-5 PS per die) (+20-30 resources per turn)
Orbital 5/5 140R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 5 dice + 2 free dice 140R %
(Progress 474/1425: 20 resources per die) (+4 to all dice, +1 die to each category) (15 Political Support)
Services 4/4 70R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 42/60: 20 resources per die)
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 1 die 10R
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (-3 Food, +2 Consumer Goods) (10 Political Support)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 33/60: 20 resources per die)
-[] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 66/120: 20 resources per die) (-10 PS)
Military 6/6 180R
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 South
--[] Super MARVs 2 dice + 2 Tiberium dice 80R %
(progress 0/210: 20 resources per die) (3 Points Red Zone Mitigation, 25 RpT)
-[] Orca Refit Deployment 2 dice 30R %
(Progress 0/200: 15 resources per die) (Very High Priority) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 2 dice + 2 free dice 40R %
(Progress 128/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy) (High Priority)
-[] GD-3 Rifle Development 1 free die 10R 100%
(Progress 0/30: 10 resources per die)
-[] Havoc Scout Mech Deployment
--[] Brest 1 free die 10R %
(Progress 77/110: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy)
--[] Seoul 1 free die 10R %
(Progress 92/110: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy)
Bureaucracy 3/3
-[] Rationalize Yellow Zones 3 dice 99%
(DC 50/70/90)
Free Dice 7/7
Resources Income 755/755 Reserve 0/0
Anyone spot any mistakes?
This plan has both the kudzu and the shuttles but unfortunately I needed the free dice for things other then the BZHIS
Infrastructure 5/5 110R
-[]Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 2) 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 28/160: 10 resources per die) (-1 Logistics, +6 Housing)
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 3 die 90R %
(Progress 0/200: 30 resources per die) (+3 Logistics)
Heavy Industry 4/4 95R
-[] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 3) 1 die 20R %
(Progress 199/300: 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy)
-[] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 3 dice 75R %
(Progress 146/500: 25 resources per die) (+8 Capital Goods, -4 Labor, -8 Energy)
Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 70R
-[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (phase 3) 3 dice 60R %
(Progress 260/320: 20 resources per die) (+2 Capital Goods, +1 Energy)
-[] Civilian Glider Development 1 die 10R 92%
(Progress 0/40: 10 resources per die)
Agriculture 3/3 40R
-[] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 3) 2 dice 20R %
(Progress 163/350: 10 resources per die) (+4 Food over 16 turns, +16 Consumer Goods over 16 turns) (+10 Political Support)
-[] Wadmalaw Kudzu Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 0/40: 20 resources per die) (High Priority)
Tiberium 6/6 50R
-[] Tiberium Prospecting Expeditions (Repeating Stage) 2 dice 10R %
(Progress 2/200: 5 resources per die) (Small additional income trickle [5 Resources])
-[] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 2) 1 die 20R %
(Progress 20/100: 20 resources per die) (+50 processing capacity [-250 during refits])
-[] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 1 die 20R %
(Progress 148/200: 20 resources per die) (-5 PS per die) (+20-30 resources per turn)
Orbital 5/5 140R
-[] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 5 dice + 2 free dice 140R %
(Progress 474/1425: 20 resources per die) (+4 to all dice, +1 die to each category) (15 Political Support)
Services 4/4 70R
-[] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 42/60: 20 resources per die)
-[] Domestic Animal Programs 1 die 10R
(Progress 0/200: 10 resources per die) (-3 Food, +2 Consumer Goods) (10 Political Support)
-[] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 33/60: 20 resources per die)
-[] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 1 die 20R %
(Progress 66/120: 20 resources per die) (-10 PS)
Military 6/6 180R
-[] Reclamator Fleet RZ-7 South
--[] Super MARVs 2 dice + 2 Tiberium dice 80R %
(progress 0/210: 20 resources per die) (3 Points Red Zone Mitigation, 25 RpT)
-[] Orca Refit Deployment 2 dice 30R %
(Progress 0/200: 15 resources per die) (Very High Priority) (-1 Capital Goods)
-[] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 2 dice + 2 free dice 40R %
(Progress 128/300: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy) (High Priority)
-[] GD-3 Rifle Development 1 free die 10R 100%
(Progress 0/30: 10 resources per die)
-[] Havoc Scout Mech Deployment
--[] Brest 1 free die 10R %
(Progress 77/110: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy)
--[] Seoul 1 free die 10R %
(Progress 92/110: 10 resources per die) (-2 Energy)
Bureaucracy 3/3
-[] Rationalize Yellow Zones 3 dice 99%
(DC 50/70/90)
Free Dice 7/7
Resources Income 755/755 Reserve 0/0
Anyone spot any mistakes?
This plan has both the kudzu and the shuttles but unfortunately I needed the free dice for things other then the BZHIS
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Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Could we do the Karachi planned city instead of the Suborbital Shuttles. It does give less logistics then the Shuttles and requires the use of a Tiberium die, but it does have some benefits. It gives some housing (which some people want), protects Himalayan rail lines, is cheaper, and helps fulfil one of the plan goals. (People have been talking about a 'Karachi Sprint' but I don't get it)
It isn't the best trade off if you want pure logistics, but it is still there. There is also the Intergral Cargo system that is less resource intensive, but would take longer. It is just a matter of how soon we need the Logistics.
It isn't the best trade off if you want pure logistics, but it is still there. There is also the Intergral Cargo system that is less resource intensive, but would take longer. It is just a matter of how soon we need the Logistics.
From the sound of it, we need them immediately. The problem with ICS is that we probably aren't going to get it anytime soon unless we dump dice in, and even then it costs 2 capital goods which we have 3 of. Suborbitals is resource intensive at first, but gets more cost effective with time and we could conceivably finish it this next turn and benefit from the logistics boost.
Edit: Decided to just throw up the array numbers because they look accurate to compare all the stuff you were asking about.
-[] Integrated Cargo System 0/800 8 dice 120R 2%, 9 dice 135R 14%, 10 dice 150R 42%, 11 dice 165R 72%, 12 dice 180R 91%
-[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 60R 23%, 3 dice 90R 81%, 4 dice 120R 98%
-[] Karachi Planned City (Phase 1) 0/65 1 Tib die 20R 80%, 2 Tib dice 40R 100%
(ICS is a lengthy journey and has no spillover potential, Suborbital is crazy expensive, Karachi needs tib dice.)
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There are no 'X's, it's way overbudget, and it doesn't list IP or Launch Capacity numbers.
More seriously, but still on-theme, we need to put much more effort into Philly.
We'll also want to put 1 die on the spillover hub we nearly completed, most likely.
I saw one plan where someone threw 10+ dice at the Philly like a madman. Is that the kind of effort you mean? Lol
We're hoping to push Karachi off until after Tib War 3.5, or at least until the tail end of it, due to the fact that it's close enough to India to poke the warlord there, and given that we have no idea what he's up to, aside from making horrible bio-cybernetic abominations. Given that we're expecting a major conflict between us and Nod, the thread is of the opinion that the risk of kicking it off early by provoking one of the leading competitors for Kane's right hand man isn't worth it.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
People are talking about a Karachi Sprint for two reasons:
1.Doing Karachi will almost certainly invite an attack during construction, so once we start we should complete it as soon as possible--as in we throw all the infrastructure dice, all the Tiberium dice, and all the Free dice at it.
2.Monsoon season. Q1 and Q2 were determined to be the least problematic times of the year re:weather.
I hadn't heard anything about putting it off until after the war, although I can see the rationale that Karachi is likely to trigger it.
The plus in 10+ might be overkill, but putting 9 to 10 dice there is actually a measured approach if we want to be reasonably sure to finish it in Q3 2059 like we tentatively planned without risking overspending too much.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Two problems.
1) You're only putting seven dice on the Philadelphia. This means that unless we roll quite well this turn, we'll need to put like 10+ dice on it next turn to actually be sure of completing the project. It would be better to frontload dice this turn and hope to avoid that unpleasant necessity next turn.
2) You have -6 Energy worth of military factories, -2 Energy worth of harvester factory, -1 Energy for freeze-dried food, and +1 Energy coming in from Reykjavik. In the fairly likely event that the fusion plants don't come online next turn, that blows our entire Energy surplus. I'd suggest not chancing it and dropping the harvester factory and/or one of the two dice on Havoc deployment. Getting one factory out this turn is good enough.
"We have a hover AA vehicle, the Slingshot. Quad guns. With the universal rocket system this might be replaced by the expected repulsor MRLS."
I think it more likely that gun AA systems will be upgraded to railguns or replaced by tactical laser vehicles. Though we are likely to see a resurgence of ULRS-based SAM systems.
...
"ZOCOM has rocket harvesters. This puts railgun ones even lower on my list of priorities.
Weirdly, in 3rd war ZOCOM wasn't using walkers like Steel Talons did and relied on conventional vehicles instead? I thought that ZOCOM preferred hover or mech vehicles because Red Zones.
For some reason both Steel Talons and ZOCOM didn't use Zone Trooper armor? What? ZOCOM has Zone Raiders, but those are anti infantry and AA not anti tank like railgun equipped Zone Troopers. Gonna ignore that."
ZOCOM has rocket harvesters but only in very limited numbers; it's reasonable to assume that the railgun harvester variant is being produced in much greater quantities. Remember that ZOCOM only consists of like... a few army corps' worth of units spread out across the entire world, so a lot of their equipment is boutique stuff made in a handful of comparatively tiny factory complexes
ZOCOM ditching the mechs used by the Steel Talons probably reflects an era when Zone Troopers' own equipment was adequate for most threats they faced. ZOCOM didn't need seventy-ton assault mechs or stuff like that when they had their own railgun rifle infantry, not until probably shortly before Tib War III.
Conversely, the Talons didn't use power armor because that's just plain not their focus. They're primarily a vehicle prototyping and testing outfit, not so?
...
"There is only a single mech in the general ground forces vehicle pool, and that's the Juggernaut. The artillery. What? Of all the things you could slap legs on, you use it to lug around artillery?"
I'm pretty sure the Juggernaut is built around the existing Titan Mk. I chassis or a closely related variant of same, and is in production because, hell, that's what was available. The advantage of using it to lug around artillery is that the artillery doesn't normally get into close range of the enemy where its high target profile exposes it to enemy direct fire weapons.
...
"We don't have an IFV, but given that infantry can freely fight from inside of our APC (don't think about it) we probably don't need one."
The Guardian's lack of armor protection has been noted as a drawback of the design; we have a proposed project that addresses it and would probably move the design more towards an IFV model.
...
"Firehawks use incendiary bombs. That research action with inferno gel could boost those. Good to have a use for the stuff that isn't flamethrowers. Not like we need or want those, we have grenades."
Also missiles with incendiary payloads. Notably, inferno gel is viable in an antitank role, which makes such payloads more versatile.
...
"Nod
Huh. Nod basically doesn't have non-elite infantry that aren't militants. That's a considerable weakness, to put it lightly, militants are conscripts or perhaps at best militia. Irregulars in any case. When we give all of our infantry power armor Nod will be in major trouble, because militants just can't compare to that, not to mention our drain on their manpower with our housing projects and open borders,"
Bear in mind that Nod is trying to address this with better infantry weapons and (at least in some factions) better training. The force we're gonna fight in 2060 or later is not quite the same Nod that we fought in 2047.
...
"Nod does not appear to have an AA vehicle heavier than an attack bike or a buggy that isn't the Stealth Tank. Their AA should be weak, which is weird because GDI should have air superiority more often than not."
Well, Nod's Tib War III counter to air power was probably "laser spam," because realistically (game mechanics aside) having massive numbers of AA lasers would make enemy air power a lot less effective. On top of that, historically Nod's tactic has been to have decent fixed air defenses, but to generally rely on stealth or other forms of protection to stop their field forces from getting pounded too hard by airstrikes. I suspect that they long ago concluded that any reasonably portable AA concentration they could manage would just get hammered down by GDI air power anyway, and what the bombers didn't take out, the ion cannons would. When you're already hiding and dodging ion cannon shots, it alters how worried you are about conventional airstrikes.
...
"Specters are nasty, nasty weapons and I want them. Stealth artillery. How do you protect against harassment and ambushes from that?"
Historically, GDI's response is "you don't." We just get randomly lightly shelled on a regular basis, with the caveat that GDI's development of its own artillery arm has forced Spectres to operate more carefully and circumspectly for fear of drawing counterbattery fire.
...
"Venoms are weird. They are small patrol aircraft/gunships basically, mounting just a minigun or laser, but they have the ability to multiply their signature or radars after an upgrade for some reason making them appear much more numerous..."
This is probably about Venoms being used as decoy units, expendable EW support platforms that are the "low" part of Nod's "high-low" mixture when fighting in the air.
...
"Once we get Nod modern lasers we might want to look into adding this to Orcas, because direct fire weapons have some considerable weaknesses compared to ballistic ones that this would help with."
Debatable. The Super Orca uses a rapid-fire railgun that probably has better armor penetration characteristics than any laser we can reasonably fit on an Orca-derived chassis. While it may not be as good against all targets, it's likely to excel at engaging the types of targets it's really designed for, and lasers are unlikely to help.
Yes, because building up a Logistics buffer is actually important and not (as you seem to imply) idle luxury spending.
The problem is that to build and hold Karachi, we'll need to fight a sizeable land war in what is now Pakistan. This means tangling with the Indian Nod warlord (the one with the biomonsters), and in general is likely to put heavy demands on our military... right around the time when we're expecting to be attacked by multiple Nod warlords at once.
Not a good situation to be in.
We need them as soon as practical; it'd be ideal to have them done immediately but if not, we just have to hope Nod doesn't hit us hard enough to overwhelm our Logistics.
I'm confident our frontline forces can handle Nod's attacks, but not so confident of the supply chains and other support axes bringing up what they need.
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First, the Stealth Tank is is fact terrifyingly effective as AA without point defense weapons because it's got a stream of missiles equal to five rocket squads. Actually, even with point defense that sounds like an issue.
Second, the Black Hand sub-faction disdains stealth so they developed the Mantis AA drone. Same AA capability as the stealth tank, lower price, but no stealth. Also no ground attack.
I actually asked QM about this. Currently, plans are to up the ante on our AA by converting the guns into railguns, I think?
Zone raiders actually had sonic grenade launchers, which do "cannon" damage type. They very much were anti-vehicle units. Additionally, they did more damage than railguns, reloaded faster, and had AoE. This all in addition to the AA missile pack, which normal Zone Troopers lacked.
Steel Talons were an experimental armor division - as in, tanks and vehicles - so although they had the basic units they didn't get advanced infantry.
It's been noted in-quest that Militants are being phased out in favor of smaller numbers of better equipped forces. So this weakness has already been addressed and closed, unfortunately.
Nod cracked repulsor tech before we did. That was one of their experimental aircraft. No word yet on if they've adapted it to hover vehicles.
Either way, they do make extensive use of lightweight buggies and bikes, and I think their scorpions are quite fast even in reverse, so the lack of hover and walkers hasn't really hurt their doctrine at all.
Navigation over rough terrain, like broken asphalt or tiberium fields. I'm actually more surprised our MCV doesn't have issues getting around the yellow and red zones.
Ignoring all the optional upgrades, it's an Obelisk of Light on legs. It looks spindly, but don't forget Nod has always had the edge on us in bleeding edge sciences; we literally got an advanced lightweight armor composite off of them in one of our research rolls.
"Then why aren't their scorpions tougher"? Shit's probably expensive as hell so it's better off used on the aforementioned Obelisk of Light on legs.
"Aren't the legs a weak point if this is supposed to be their heavy armor?" Yes. That's why our Commandos play merry hell with them. C4 to the legs, boom!
Probably the charge up phase making tracking an issue.
Sonic shells. Different uses and tolerances than normal shells. And it fired consecutively, not all at once; the three barrels were probably to mitigate the long per-barrel reload times.
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As mentioned, yes. That is exactly the level of effort I mean. Because I want it completed Q3, and 7 dice is very iffy in terms of getting there.
Hm, to get it there it looks like we'll need approximately 19-20 dice put in from where we're at now to reasonably complete it (maybe one or two more if we're unlucky). 7 dice seems about on track, no? 10+ seems more in line with getting it done in two quarters.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
1.Duly noted. I can free up nine dice for Philadelphia without cutting everything else too much.
At ten dice I basically arrive at your plan tinkered with around the edges--I just have to cut too much to make it happen.
2.On the one hand, it's quite likely we'll finish CFF 3 next quarter even if we don't get it done this turn, so I don't see blowing the Energy Surplus as particularly problematic. But I can shift a HIS die back to CFF if that would help.
On the other hand, Purification also takes one Energy. Hmm.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
[X] Plan Prepping for the Heist, part 1
The current median for the action is 15 dice, so more like 14-16 dice to get there.
We have significant boni to our orbital dice.
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Ah! I forgot about the bonus entirely, looks like the array might be bit out of date for that part. In that case doesn't that mean we're near guaranteed to get it given 5-7 dice towards Philly each turn? What's with all the hoopla for more towards it then, just desire to get it done fast?
- Location
- New England
[X] Plan Prepping for the Heist, part 1
Well, every turn we don't have it done we miss out on 4 progress per die we activate, and are one die per category below where we'd be with it done, so yeah there's a lot of desire to get more die and more bonuses per die going.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
So my previous constant suggestions that we put a hold on housing and pursue Logistics never happened.
And there aren't cheaper (per dice) Logistics options available.
What is up with bending over backwards to contrive the most ridiculous interpretation, and then getting offended about it?
If we, say, only assign 7 dice to it this turn, and roll poorly, we could need, say, another 10 or 11 dice next turn to get over 90% competion probability.
If we assign 10 and roll moderately to well, we could predict more accurately how many dice we would need to spend next turn, since our standard deviation would be smaller, and so be more sure to keep overinvestment reasonable.
This matters since it is the last phase of the project, so all overinvested dice would be lost since there is no "next phase" to catch up the overcompletion.
You are far, far too early.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
ICS or railroads, man. Save the shuttles for when we can afford them.
Say, when we're not contemplating multiple capstone projects in a row.
ICS does nothing though, we've established that it won't give us any logistics for some time. We would have to dedicate all of our Infrastructure dice to it for at least 3 quarters to even have a chance of completing it like that. (Or we could throw our free dice at it and have it done fast but nobody wants to use them for that or we won't finish Philly.)
Rail could work, but it's unlikely to finish this quarter because it requires more progress than shuttles do (unless we dedicate most/all of our infrastructure dice to that) and ultimately is a dead end because we only have two phases available from what I can see at 4 logistics each. (And would require more dice, unless we roll crazy, and thus barely be more cost effective. Every phase of shuttles gets cheaper resource wise to build, and gives more and more logistics.)
The only quick grabs I see for logistics are the planned city that needs tib dice and might start a war, civilian gliders (according to discord people they give a small amount), and orbital shuttles.
Do we think we could squeeze by on whatever we get from civilian gliders?
That is not a fair characterization of Simon's response.
You made the post implying that Wad Kudzu was on the same level of priority for funding as Logistics options.
You cant take offense when you get called on it.
You're mistaken.
We can afford them, and should probably do them instead of spending Cap Goods on ICS.
At the end of Q1 2059, Infrastructure Bonus is +27.
Railway 1+2 is 575 Progress for 8 Logistics
Which is 8 dice and 120R at average rolls
No additional costs
ICS is 800 Progress for 18 Logistics
Which is 11 dice and 165R at average rolls
Additional costs are -2 Labor, -2 Energy, -2 Cap Goods
Suborbital Shuttle 1+2+3 is 650 Progress for 16 Logistics
9 dice and 240R at average rolls
No additional costs
****
TLDR
Shuttles does not cost us Cap Goods, while ICS does.
Shuttles gives us 2x the amount of Logistics that Railway does for 2x the Resource cost but almost the same dice cost.
Given the various demands on Cap Goods in the next year(Warfactory Refit 8 + Orca 1 + ZA Factory 1-2 + Vein Mines ???), both for money and military, I cant really justify spending on ICS. Not until we have an actual Cap Goods surplus in hand.
We have growing income(800+ by next turn ). Growing our Cap Goods supply is harder.