2016 Community Council Voting Thread

Who would you like to have on the Community Council? You may choose any number of candidates.

  • Private Lee O'Malley

    Votes: 308 28.3%
  • Simulium Novitius

    Votes: 99 9.1%
  • TotalAbsolutism

    Votes: 155 14.2%
  • Q99

    Votes: 226 20.8%
  • Iandude0

    Votes: 143 13.1%
  • ryuan

    Votes: 128 11.8%
  • Omicron

    Votes: 232 21.3%
  • Fernandel

    Votes: 396 36.4%
  • Whiskey Golf

    Votes: 436 40.1%
  • Revlid

    Votes: 241 22.2%
  • Serafina

    Votes: 315 29.0%
  • FBH

    Votes: 226 20.8%
  • Ramenth

    Votes: 363 33.4%
  • shinaobi

    Votes: 118 10.8%
  • shadenight123

    Votes: 406 37.3%
  • Hykal94

    Votes: 159 14.6%
  • andy50

    Votes: 97 8.9%
  • Estro

    Votes: 104 9.6%
  • TheBleachDoctor

    Votes: 429 39.4%
  • Biigoh

    Votes: 430 39.5%
  • poaw

    Votes: 199 18.3%
  • Jackie

    Votes: 222 20.4%
  • Cornuthaum

    Votes: 345 31.7%
  • chibipoe

    Votes: 372 34.2%

  • Total voters
    1,088
  • Poll closed .
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Most underrated: Muhammad ibn Abdullah. This man is someone many have heard, barely anyone understands, and whose legacy impacts people far more than any emperor. Go read about him.
>underrated
>founder of the world's most second populous religion
>most holy figure of that religion
>left a cultural legacy across the middle east, southeast asia, africa, the indian subcontinent, and the steppes

>U N D E R R A T E D

I don't actually think I need much more than meme arrows in my skepticism that you actually know what the word underrated means.
 
>underrated
>founder of the world's most second populous religion
>most holy figure of that religion
>left a cultural legacy across the middle east, southeast asia, africa, the indian subcontinent, and the steppes

>U N D E R R A T E D

I don't actually think I need much more than meme arrows in my skepticism that you actually know what the word underrated means.

Yes, totally underrated.

How many people, both Muslim and non-Muslim, know who the man was? What he did, and why he did it? The fact that there's so many incorrect things about him that's floating around, is why I do consider him underrated.

Or in other words:

 
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First, to everyone that served on the council before @Whiskey Golf, @FBH, @Ramenth, @shadenight123, @TheBleachDoctor, @Biigoh, @Cornuthaum, @chibipoe what do you feel your biggest accomplishment was? (or at least the biggest you can talk about?) I apologize if you already mentioned it.

Oh lord there are questions.

Uh, proud of? Most of the stuff I take pride in I can't really talk about. I suppose that time I went and read through a terrible terrible terrible quest to find all the "specific examples" of rule breaking behavior to stop an argument about "BUT THERE ARE NO SPECIFIC EXAMPLES, THE TOTALITY ISN'T ENOUGH!" ranks pretty high.

Or that time I was away and came back to see someone trying to seriously argue that saying France was asking for the Paris Attacks was tasteful and no one else had noticed.


... These are bad examples. :/ Most of what the council does is private, though, so...
 
How many people, both Muslim and non-Muslim, know who the man was? What he did, and why he did it? The fact that there's so many incorrect things about him that's floating around, is why I do consider him underrated.
He's still revered by a quarter of the world's population, and known by most of the remainder. Of those, how many people would you guess have an understanding of Mohammad at least as comprehensive as your own? A hundred million? Two hundred million?

Compare with, I don't know, Subutai, son of a blacksmith, rose to become Genghis Khan's chief strategist even though he wasn't a Mongol. Conquered thirty-two nations including all of modern Russia. One of the greatest generals who ever lived.

Western cultural legacy consists of having a character from Conan the Barbarian named after him.
 
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Compare with, I don't know, Subutai, son of a blacksmith, rose to become Genghis Khan's chief strategist even though he wasn't a Mongol. Conquered thirty-two nations including all of modern Russia. One of the greatest generals who ever lived.
Add "might as well have been a literal magician when it came to commanding forces seperated by hundreds of kilometers of hostile terrain"
 
Which historical figure do you think is most overrated?

Which figure is most underrated?
Alright, better do this. Overrated: Probably the Founding Fathers. They were good, but not worthy of the mythology that surrounds them in America.

Underrated? Probably Prince John. He acutally became a king, and what most of people know of him is the exaggerated form from Robin Hood. He also created the Magna Carta, which is kinda a big deal.
 
Which historical figure do you think is most overrated?

Which figure is most underrated?

Most overrated: George Washington. I mean, he's a templar isn't he?

Most underrated: Italians! We are the reason you have plastic, you whippersnappers! We are at the forefront of major scientific discoveries throughout the centuries, and whenever something good is done, you can bet your ass the surname of that man is Italian! This is definitely not my nationalism speaking! Move along citizen! Move along!
 
He also created the Magna Carta, which is kinda a big deal.
A document other people forced him to sign at swordpoint? And that he didn't obey anyhow?
First drafted by the Archbishop of Canterbury to make peace between the unpopular King and a group of rebel barons, it promised the protection of church rights, protection for the barons from illegal imprisonment, access to swift justice, and limitations on feudal payments to the Crown, to be implemented through a council of 25 barons. Neither side stood behind their commitments, and the charter was annulled by Pope Innocent III, leading to the First Barons' War.
 
Most overrated: George Washington. I mean, he's a templar isn't he?

Most underrated: Italians! We are the reason you have plastic, you whippersnappers! We are at the forefront of major scientific discoveries throughout the centuries, and whenever something good is done, you can bet your ass the surname of that man is Italian! This is definitely not my nationalism speaking! Move along citizen! Move along!
I am shocked, just shocked, and not at all suspicious, to see the Italian endorse the Italians.
 
I am shocked, just shocked, and not at all suspicious, to see the Italian endorse the Italians.
It is said that the only time an Italian did not endorse Italy was for the 2002 World Cup Semifinals, for had Italy proceeded to the finals, the Bald Referee would never achieved his dream of refereeing a World Cup Final. :V

Or perhaps his love of Italy was so strong that he was willing to cast aside his dream to see his nation achieve glory.

We shall never know.
 
America is not the center of the world, nor is it the only nation that matters. Admiral Yi is fairly well known in East Asia. Besides, the average American does not have a very good grasp of history. I doubt the average layman American would recognize the name Kublai Khan despite his being responsible for one of Japan's most integral national mythos and his involvement with Marco Polo.
We learned about Kublai Khan in middle school.
 
Which historical figure do you think is most overrated?

Which figure is most underrated?

Overrated? Hm, possibly King Leonidas and the Spartans? Had way more forces than generally acknowledged, the battle wasn't the key factor in stopping the invasion, and if the Persions had taken over it probably wouldn't have been that big a deal in the grand scheme.

Ooh, no, scratch that- Columbus. Crap explorer who got lucky, absolutely horrible person.

Underrated? Likely someone we don't even know ^^

Hatshepsut who I named is pretty underrated in that she's one of the *big* pharaoh in accomplishments (and that is a category with a lot of competition as I don't have to tell you!) and most haven't heard of her.

Musa Keita, Mansa of Mali, has got to get some props for likely being the richest person ever and accidentally crushing the economies of the lands he was traveling through due to being too generous and 'money' effectively losing meaning- then on the way back using his wealth to *fix* them, because he was just that rich.
 
He's still revered by a quarter of the world's population, and known by most of the remainder. Of those, how many people would you guess have an understanding of Mohammad at least as comprehensive as your own? A hundred million? Two hundred million?

Compare with, I don't know, Subutai, son of a blacksmith, rose to become Genghis Khan's chief strategist even though he wasn't a Mongol. Conquered thirty-two nations including all of modern Russia. One of the greatest generals who ever lived.

Western cultural legacy consists of having a character from Conan the Barbarian named after him.

If you had the skill and time to teach a hundred people of the history of Muhammad or Subutai, who would you consider a far more important figure to teach to the public?

To many (though not all), Muhammad in the west is considered a barbaric warlord who forcefully converted everyone by the sword. On this site alone, I've seen him be called an immoral bedouin (nevermind the fact he was not a nomad, but a city dweller.) I would not be at all surprise to learn if SV knows more about Mongol generals than they do the founder of the world's second largest religion.

A negative impression of the Prophet paints a negative impression on Muslims. How many people have derided him, made entire websites that lie about who he was? Have drawn him in the most hideous caricature? How many people never bother to learn his role as prophet, politician and general?

The fact that he has such a negative reputation in the West due to sheer ignorance is the reason why I consider him underrated.

Temujin and his generals, impressive as they are, are not nearly as tarnished as Muhammad is. Their legacy does not survive to this day. Muhammad's, does.
 
A negative impression of the Prophet paints a negative impression on Muslims.
I'm not sure that's true; I find it more likely that people who already have a negative impression of Muslims use a negative portrait of Muhammad as an excuse to justify it. I don't think people really base their impressions and biases about other people they encounter in their lives based on a distant historical figure. Jesus doesn't get smeared on nearly as much and it doesn't keep people from going 'Jesus was cool, my problem is with his followers' and just generally dissociating him from his religion.
 
You fuckers are lucky I am on leave because this goddamn discussion

'If the persians took over greece would not have been big deal'

I know Squishy mostly uses faux romanisms but by ZEUS
 
A negative impression of the Prophet paints a negative impression on Muslims. How many people have derided him, made entire websites that lie about who he was? Have drawn him in the most hideous caricature? How many people never bother to learn his role as prophet, politician and general?

The fact that he has such a negative reputation in the West due to sheer ignorance is the reason why I consider him underrated

I'm, uh, not sure that's coming out of ignorance there, Hykal.
 
I'm not sure that's true; I find it more likely that people who already have a negative impression of Muslims use a negative portrait of Muhammad as an excuse to justify it. I don't think people really base their impressions and biases about other people they encounter in their lives based on a distant historical figure. Jesus doesn't get smeared on nearly as much and it doesn't keep people from going 'Jesus was cool, my problem is with his followers' and just generally dissociating him from his religion.

You're right. Regardless, Muhammad is a very easy target to tarnish Muslims with, simply because people don't know enough about him in the first place other than "guy from desert who spread religion really really fast through forceful conversion."

Which, you know, didn't happen. It took Egypt three hundred years to be Muslim. That's not "fast" by any standard.

I'm, uh, not sure that's coming out of ignorance there, Hykal.

Ignorance, bigotry, it's all jahiliiyah to me.
 
You're right. Regardless, Muhammad is a very easy target to tarnish Muslims with, simply because people don't know enough about him in the first place other than "guy from desert who spread religion really really fast through forceful conversion."

Which, you know, didn't happen. It took Egypt three hundred years to be Muslim. That's not "fast" by any standard.



Ignorance, bigotry, it's all jahiliiyah to me.
I mean, at some point, you're gonna run into the fact that Muhammad was a 7th century historical figure. He definitely brought a progressive message but he also... Did 7th century leader shit. You can work to erase the lies about him and teach people about the real character but in the end some people are still gonna look at him and see an evil man the same way they would a lot of famous people of that time if they learned more than pop history about them.
 
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I don't think you can paint SV as ignorant of Muhammad, plenty do not, but I know for a fact that we have plenty on here that do, if not from our educated members, than from our seemingly healthy number of Muslim members.
 
You fuckers are lucky I am on leave because this goddamn discussion

'If the persians took over greece would not have been big deal'

I know Squishy mostly uses faux romanisms but by ZEUS

Oh, yea, it'd cause *massive* changes to the course of events, but, like... we aren't talking 'advancement being set back centuries' or anything. More re-directed.
 
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And now I sort of want to see an alternate timeline where the Persian Empire won, and went on to conquer all of Europe.
 
Oh, yea, it'd cause *massive* changes to the course of events, but, like... we aren't talking 'advancement being set back centuries' or anything. More re-directed.
Actually it might be. The Hellenistic Science which resulted from spending the wealth that the Persian Empire had been hoarding once they were conquered by Alexander – which includes both a bunch of geometry and the water wheel – would be completely butterflied away. At least half the western philosophical tradition would be passed on to us substantially differently, if it is at all.

Other changes include both Hanukkah and Buddhism being significantly different.

And that's before we get into what changes this might do in the Western Mediterranean.
 
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This is getting kinda tired now; can we talk about the election again please?
Well, since we cannot see the results, the best we can do is speculate, or wait for posters to ask us questions. Or wait for posters to do analysis of the nominees. That'd be nice.

As the easiest one is boundless speculation, let me congratulate Fernandel upon his council position, because I will eat Mac and Cheese if he doesn't get in.
 
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