All Level, No Experience (Worm/Pathfinder Amnesia Quest)

zxzx24 said:

The Siberia can burrow as fast as she can move. Which is incredibly fast.

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She absolutely cannot. She can walk into the ground, which is presumably awkward for her and, much more importantly, doesn't give her ability to sense invisible burrowing Vault Builder while that same Vault Builder can tell where she is at all times. Her speed is merely "fast" meanwhile we are invisible, have magic clones and can teleport with a thought, all the while she is the only real threat to pay attention to and as such we have no reason to not know where she is at all times.

Well at least you are appreciating that she can in fact just walk into the ground to go after us. That's something.

And you know fair point. I do hope we aren't caught out somehow though. That would really suck.

zxzx24 said:

Well at least you are appreciating that she can in fact just walk into the ground to go after us. That's something.

And you know fair point. I do hope we aren't caught out somehow though. That would really suck.

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Well, more crawl then walk I guess. As I said, it would be awkward for her as she would need to play with gravity and selectively apply her invincibility to earth around her to move around correctly. Although she might have enough practice with it to be fast and furious moving underground, who knows.

But yeah, while Siberian punching us is certainly something that might maim or kill us, we have enough mobility(with both flight and burrow, as well as teleport) and sensory manipulation to keep her from coming in melee range. And since that is basically the only thing we need to care about, it would be super hard to her to get in position to actually land a hit.

Lopezelpesado said:

Hmmm maybe yall gave dragon too much too fast... This could be problematic in the future.

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zxzx24 said:

Yeah Dragon is showing early signs of a god(dess) complex here.

And just the general struggle of being tuned into everything everywhere all the time.

This isn't a super big problem right now. But likely will be in the future.

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The whole thing with the S9 is Broadcast fucking over Dragon. She's just as susceptible as other Parahumans to Jack's power.

However, the PC isn't. No Shard, no easy mode for Jack.

It's not just Jack Slash. But Mr "I specialize in driving parahumans insane." For sure isn't helping things.

Very cool and interesting planning, and don't let me interrupt too much, but I do feel compelled to re-emphasize again, that plan that failed was not because it was 'poorly worded', it was because that plan had repeatedly asked for not only impossible things, but that those things were blatantly and (to any even like, 1st level, Golarion caster) surface level obviously fundamentally impossible, such as making scrolls of spells you didn't know (before you figured out/without that limited wish workaround), or an Item of Technomancy w/Metamagics that straight up couldn't actually be applied to the spell Technomancy.

Just, again, it's not "poor wording" that caused that, and again, if y'all go forward thinking that then that in itself might cause y'all some issues. Honestly, there were parts in that plan that could've worked (some that actually did), and heck with recent chapters y'all actually probably could have just re-tried a lot of that plan again, with the core issue making (much of) it blatantly impossible before addressed, for the things that were at all possible.

Or existed, I still have no damn idea where in the nine hells anyone dredged up the idea that a homunculus could be attuned to someone, and still can't even figure out what that would actually even mean.

Besides, I don't know if some of y'all have noticed, but from time to time since then Iluontar has actually lightly corrected some things in your plans without having issues. For instance, portal vs. circle in a recent one and I know there's more but can't remember top of my head.

Addendum: Actually, now on further thought, it was kind of Wolfy's general approach that could've avoided that, since I'm realizing a big chunk of what caused that issue was, well it wasn't even the micromanaging in itself, that actually can work out, it's that, I don't know, you somehow managed the micro without the manage, if that makes sense.

Anyhow, pardon me, just, again, felt compelled to re-mention that 'poor wording' was not the cause of the issue before.

zxzx24 said:

Yeah Dragon is showing early signs of a god(dess) complex here.

And just the general struggle of being tuned into everything everywhere all the time.

This isn't a super big problem right now. But likely will be in the future.

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Honestly, I don't see it as a problem at all? It's nothing but benefit, honestly. The greater of a goddess complex Dragon has, the more likely she is to go rogue with us when we eventually decide to flip the board and go for world conquest explicitly.

One funny thing we can do is use Named Bullet to enhance the bullets of our construct. If set to humans, they automatically hit their targets, automatically crits and then deals additional 40 damage. Given that our guy is packing Light Machinegun, that is 70 assured damage against parahumans, which should murder most non-Brutes.

In theory you could go furtherer beyond, by making gun version of heavy Boulder Bullet for the gun, increasing damage all the way to 100+.

It's kinda funny that our construct can likely take on Hatchetface, Jack, Bonesaw, Burnscar, Shatterbird and probably Manequin and end up soloing them, just because guns are strong. To say nothing about dragon.

Ah, named bullet doesn't auto-hit, just makes it threaten a critical if it does hit- misfire is a specific firearm only mechanic where if you roll within the misfire range of a firearm, it jams and you have to spend time to fix it- for a LMG the default misfire is 1-2, here, from the Aonprd section on Firearms

"Misfires: If the natural result of your attack roll falls within a firearm's misfire value, that shot misses, even if you would have otherwise hit the target. When a firearm misfires, it gains the broken condition. [etc.]"

And the Greater Reliable enchantment reduces a firearm's misfire by 4, to a minimum of 0, meaning at that point it never misfires without outside tampering. Admittedly not as solid as the sheer axiomatic declaration of a Named Bullet spell outright stating "No, this will no longer misfire", but still worth noting.

Well, and Technological Firearms don't even have a misfire rating at all.

But yeah, I hadn't known about the Named Bullet spell, that is potent on your soldier guy, I think that means he full attacks for something like "+15/15/15/10 (2d6+21/x4)" (optional -3 to attack rolls to add +6 to damage with Deadly Aim, or by taking an additional -4 they can get yet another attack at their highest BAB due to Automatic weapons being able to act as semi-automatic as well), Threatening to crit for 8d6+21, and targeting Touch AC to a distance of 500 ft. And I'm just now realizing they'll probably crit fairly often, since

"Precision (Ex): An A.C.E. Clockwork Soldier rolls twice to confirm critical hits, taking the more favorable result."

Huh, yeah, that is liable to absolutely shred a target, even moreso than I had initially thought. I love it.

I regret we don't have teleport object prepared. Combine it with scrying and a Sufficient quantity of explosives and we could have splatted most of the nine without even getting close.

Only other thing I would add to the plan would be abuse of time stop. We can teleport while in time stop right? And cast polar ray since it shoots a ray?
So we don't even give them a chance to react. No getting lucky. No clever tricks. One moment everything is fine. The next everything is frozen and blasted apart.

The most foolproof way to do this is likely just using Demand. So
>Scry S9, use Legend Lore to get their weakness + try to get info about Manton if possible, not required
>Use Demand on Jack to order other members of 9 to scatter away from him while he sits tight
>use Demand on each member of nine to have them move away from each other
>bag them and tag them

Once again liberal use of mind control proves to be superior option. Perhaps Unity was right after all?

Well, there is the issue that solving them with mind control is WAY worse looking than just dropping Meteor Storms and Disintegrates on them until they stop twitching.

Outside of the Siberian, who can probably be neutralized by certain anti-summon/incapacitation spells once Ilunotar knows their deal, the Nine really aren't up to par by the standards of even an ordinary adventuring party in the double-digit levels, and are laughably outmatched by a Mythic being. Spice could probably take them by itself, if it were a bit smarter and had a higher Will. Wiping them out isn't the issue, so we can afford to worry about appearances.

If worried about Bonesaw's dead-man-switch, note that Disintegrate is quite thorough in neutralizing such threats. As long as a Disintegrate is the killing blow, there won't be anything left to become a problem. Similarly for Crawler, who's regeneration trick is pretty old hat for anyone of this level.

One issue I would point out is that we don't know the save DC for stuff like master effects. Normally we should be able to laugh off anything coming from someone of their "level", but what about the shard that is backing things behind the scenes? That could be a lot more dangerous.

Yeah, exotic effects are backed up by an interdimensional continent sized supercomputer, so we can't trust we can resist them. For that reason we should always hit masters first.

Looking at the current leading (and only) plan, I do want to ask, partially curiosity and also because I cannot figure it out myself; Why capture rather than kill Bonesaw? and more particularly, why have Bonesaw brought to Dragon specifically?

Just, I cannot figure out the reasoning myself and I haven't seen it spelled out either, so I'm just not quite comprehending.

Because we can use Bonesaw to undo her failsafes and such. OOC she is also useful because she can potentially create any amount of parahumans we want, which might allow for combos later. In reality the only member of S9 we specifically want dead is Jack because he is a possible Scion trigger.

Anyway, I would like to try something. You see, killing Siberian is not hard. Half of Worm quests do it, because it is basically just killing a dude. However, that is beneath us. I would like to actually defeat Siberian itself, the invincible projection, to take on one of the strongest Earth Bet has to offer and not only dominate, but humiliate. How, you might ask?

See, the known "weakness" of Siberian's is that she requires ground to actually move. So we can just remove it by simple Create Pit or perhaps better yet by using Limited Wish to dig out a hole as per Move Earth. This would usually serve as a short lived distraction, except we have no need to actually let Siberian fall. We can use another Limited Wish to replicate effects of Gravity Sphere, which would remove gravity from area, preventing Siberian from falling down while Gravity Sphere is active. She could try to just let wind carry her to safety or to swim through the air, except we will also cast Suffocating Void to remove air from the area. Thus Siberian will be reduced to pathetically flailing around while we are walking around maintaining the effects and livestreaming her humiliation for world to see.

Why wouldn't Manaton just recall her? Well because we used Demand on him to prevent him from doing so, or from leaving the area. With this we have not only defeated S9, but we have also went out of our way to utterly dominate one of the scariest capes there is, just to show that we are indeed in class of our own.

Okay let me throw out a plan

[X] Plan: One step at a time.
-[X] Reassure Dragon and get some privacy. The exact details of your scrying abilities should perhaps remain secret for now.
-[X] Use Limited Wish to cast Scrying on a member of S9 until it works on one of them, then use Discern Location and Legend Lore to get info you need to design a plan of attack

We can plan an approach after we get information. We might want to change things depending on what is going on.
If there isn't any time pressure we could just use a Mythic power to re-prepare spells in an hour, and hit them with teleport object without ever getting close.

Ahh, I see now. That is genuinely a pretty solid reasoning that I hadn't seen. Also, I can always appreciate going out of your way to specifically make a statement.

Edit: Suffocating Void is 3rd Party, but, it's Kobold Press and not only are they generally cool, I love also used some of their stuff in making the character so it'd possibly be a bit wack of me not to allow it.

Also, the idea of Livestreaming the Takedown of the Nine is simultaneous kind of hilarious and actually pretty smart in some ways.

I actually used Wind Wall initially to just stop Siberian gliding away by riding winds, but Suffocation Void is generally superior as it also stops any attempts at swimming through the air as well.

Depending on how exactly her invincibility is modeled in-universe, a cage made out of Walls of Force might be able to stop the Siberian. It's a funny mental image for her to lunge at someone and then bonk her entire body into an indestructible wall.

On the other hand, she is described as an unstoppable force, so who knows. Maybe it'd cause Weird Shard Shenanigans.

Right, cause it got brought up, and I feel like it might've been included if y'all thought of it earlier, I'm going to do a lightning vote, open for like, one-ish hour.

Do you want to record/livestream the S9 Fight? I'll be using instant runoff on this vote, so no worries there.

[ ] Yes, Livestream.
[ ] Yes, Record.
[ ] No.

[X] Yes, Record.

It's likely there'll be extremely graphic content, and there could be collateral damage, which would look bad for us without some editing. But taking proof is important.

[X] Yes, Record.

[X] Yes, Record.