Remove ads

All Level, No Experience (Worm/Pathfinder Amnesia Quest)

Reader mode
Sckribe said:
Yeah, sadly, as in Pathfinder, unless you've got some specific way about it, most special senses auto-invalidate stealth. Now, in Worm special senses like that are really dang rare. Actually, uh, now that I'm thinking about it, Gallant is like, one of the only ones that could sense you while you're underground (aside from Eidolon with a specific power, but like, 'Eidolon with a specific power' is a bit like saying Batman with Prep Time).

Also now that it's known that Gallant/Dean had spotted y'all, I can share that I'd been stuck with the mental image of Dean, happily on a new year's eve date with his girlfriend at the mall, all going well, only to suddenly wonder, "Why is there a sense of curiosity following us under the floor?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gallant, Cherie, Chastity, and Samuel Vasil, maybe ramped-up Lung, Crawler, Cricket, or Screamer hearing/feeling that something's off underground, certain tinkers (the power broadcast over the air from our portable hole might stand out), maybe Vista (via her manton limit if shards register us as alive, maybe via the portable hole if not), maybe Tecton and Gully (via his power if the shard registers us as being architecture/geology, potentially via tremorsense tech), CrystalClear, Mama Mathers, maybe Victor (depending on the unlisted vectors his power has, sneaking around and listening and on him might establish a link he can steal through).

A lot of these are maybes that depend on minutia like 'to what extent do we register as alive/human/having a body/a rock/disturbing the earth we glide through', and many of them aren't passive the way Gallant's thinker power is.

Also, a nitpick, but I don't know that Gallant's emotion sensing ability is public (and he pretends to be a tinker). I could still see Iluontar figuring it out here, but that deduction is missing in the chain of logic.

It's still one of the best thinker-battles I've read though, you should feel proud for writing it.
 
WillRobinson said:
Gallant, Cherie, Chastity, and Samuel Vasil, maybe ramped-up Lung, Crawler, Cricket, or Screamer hearing/feeling that something's off underground, certain tinkers (the power broadcast over the air from our portable hole might stand out), maybe Vista (via her manton limit if shards register us as alive, maybe via the portable hole if not), maybe Tecton and Gully (via his power if the shard registers us as being architecture/geology, potentially via tremorsense tech), CrystalClear, Mama Mathers, maybe Victor (depending on the unlisted vectors his power has, sneaking around and listening and on him might establish a link he can steal through).

A lot of these are maybes that depend on minutia like 'to what extent do we register as alive/human/having a body/a rock/disturbing the earth we glide through', and many of them aren't passive the way Gallant's thinker power is.

Also, a nitpick, but I don't know that Gallant's emotion sensing ability is public (and he pretends to be a tinker). I could still see Iluontar figuring it out here, but that deduction is missing in the chain of logic.

It's still one of the best thinker-battles I've read though, you should feel proud for writing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bless you for your knowledge magic worm lore robot.
 
WillRobinson said:
Also, a nitpick, but I don't know that Gallant's emotion sensing ability is public (and he pretends to be a tinker). I could still see Iluontar figuring it out here, but that deduction is missing in the chain of logic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I admit, I also wasn't entirely certain how public it was myself, as from what I could find it was mainly ambiguous, so I am personally choosing to believe that it is public-ish but not directly confirmed. Like, fairly well-ish known or suspected, but not written anywhere official.
 
Well it's convenient we now have excellent motivation to figure out a way to hide from powers.

Do you think Discern Location would work on matter generated by a cape to find the shard? Matter the shard generated (or perhaps moved into this dimension) could count as an item that once belonged to it.
 
[X] Plan Open Communication
-[X] Express to her that you are not a case 53, but you would like to engage her services for your own goals.
-[X] Express that you believe yourself to be stronger than her current team to a large degree, but would appreciate underlings as you set yourself up.
-[X] Express that there are a great deal of things that you can fix, and that your powers are overall rather vast, to the point of being able to easily match what she's getting from her team.
-[X] Upon learning she has a gun to her head (which should come out relatively easily with our intelligence), offer to deal with it as a show of good faith.
 
[X] Plan Open Communication

TT is (obviously) a great addition. Currently one of our most important resources are our memory procs. TT is capable of extracting more out of those, or even supplementing some entirely, generating value in a way even our nigh all powerful self can't supplement. Additionally she has all the data one the city we might ever need, allowing us to smoothly proceed into next phase of our plan, she can be used to find ways to quickly and reliably generate resources and get our Wish online, and she directly leads to being prepared for Echidna fight.

And the best of all, she will join us willingly because we are better than her old master. Rest of her team are mostly useless with exception of Alex, but I'm not sure we want to go the route of getting him prisoners. Not because I have any issues with that or fear that others might have issues with that, but because entire logistic of it is just very awkward. Alex might become very useful once we get to the point where we want to do broken cape combos, however.
 
I would suggest we not be to forceful with our recruitment attempt. The fact that we are a better boss then Coil is not necessarily immediately obvious, so her reaction to recruitment might not be "I am being rescued" it might be "I am now under the thumb of another even more powerful cape I know very little about".

That is why I want to leave it more in her court. Treat her as an independent agent for hire, and if she wants a closer association she can reach out and work on building it. Show her worth and all.

Telling too much to her is bad for the same reason. The more she knows about us the less we can afford to keep her at a distance. At a certain point she will have to wonder "Will I really be allowed to leave knowing all of this". And well, would we allow her to walk away once she knows enough of our secrets?

So leaving her an out, at least at this stage, is important if we do want to recruit her.
 
As an aside, I would very much like if the next update was from TTs PoV. While it would be hard to write, seeing Tats go full:



Is ever delightful
 
An observant and intelligent individual with a sufficient amount of common sense is truly the kryptonite of any Thinker.

I really don't think Sarah would want to work for Iluontar. Sure, the new employer doesn't have a literal gun to her head, and she's an overall nicer person, but in this scenario, it's still a forced recruitment. Let's not forget that Iluontar's goals are even more ambitious, and that this time it is she who is the weaker Thinker and cannot even count on deceiving her new boss with false submission. In some ways, this is an even more dangerous situation than with Coil.

Let's also not forget that Sarah is not some sage, she is a teenager whose superpower tends to deliberately push her to conclusions that will cause conflict. Given her track record, she would probably do something stupid under pressure.

And given how her ability works, she is quite capable of causing harm, especially if she stays nearby for a long time. And the more information we provide her, the greater the chance that she will understand something else that we do not want to share with her at all.

Personally, I don't think she would ever want to work for Iluontar - from her point of view, it was like running away from Coil and then getting a job at Accord.

Now the plan:

[X] Plan: Proposal for cooperation.
-[X] She probably had something she wanted to say earlier, didn't she? Was it her initiative for the meeting?
-[X] Don't push too hard - you don't want her to panic and do something stupid.
-[X] Compliment her powers of observation and encourage her to provide you with information in exchange for money, or perhaps a favour, as long as there is nothing illegal about it.
-[X] If in the process you realize that her current employer is holding her back with death threats... Well, that's a problem you're willing to help with.
-[X] You're open to the idea of hiring her on a more permanent basis, although to do that you'll probably have to trust each other more.
-[X] Try to be mysterious without confirming or denying her conclusions.

So first of all, if we want to achieve something as a result of the conversation, we don't need to put too much pressure on Tattletale -
She doesn't handle it very well. And if we want to hire her without using threats or mind control, we need to make it clear to her that this is an offer she can refuse. She's unlikely to ever fully trust a boss who's smarter than her, but offers of cooperation are a good start.

And not to say anything unnecessary - even if we trusted Tt, you never know who else might become a witness. In a world with parahumans like Clairvoyant, you never know. And even if Iluontar is completely open and honest, Sarah still most likely will not trust a person smarter than her.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
I really don't think Sarah would want to work for Iluontar.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why not though? We are nothing if not exceedingly reasonable. She gets to sit around and use her powers when we need them and for that she will be compensated more than handsomely both in material terms and in more arcane things we can gift to others. Our requirements are very low, so long she respects the law and is useful to us.

The reason why she hates Coil is because Coil is evil control freak who tortures her in parallel timelines then uses her power to experience that torture in real timeline for funnsies. We offer her salvation and cushy job as long as she is useful and follows some fairy easy to do things. She even gets to make the world a better place in process. At worst it is wholly transactional venture where she gets us up to date with this realm and gives us bunch of stuff we really need, and we get her resource, murder Coil and do some other stuff for her. A huge win for both parties.
 
Wolfy said:
Why not though? We are nothing if not exceedingly reasonable. She gets to sit around and use her powers when we need them and for that she will be compensated more than handsomely both in material terms and in more arcane things we can gift to others. Our requirements are very low, so long she respects the law and is useful to us.

The reason why she hates Coil is because Coil is evil control freak who tortures her in parallel timelines then uses her power to experience that torture in real timeline for funnsies. We offer her salvation and cushy job as long as she is useful and follows some fairy easy to do things. She even gets to make the world a better place in process. At worst it is wholly transactional venture where she gets us up to date with this realm and gives us bunch of stuff we really need, and we get her resource, murder Coil and do some other stuff for her. A huge win for both parties.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Because it's important for Tattletale to feel intellectually superior, to feel like she's in control of her life since that's her only strong point? Because he cannot be sure of the sincerity of a person who is smart enough to be able to deceive her? Because trying to recruit in her circumstances is coercion, even if mild, and not something she has pleasant associations with? Because she is a teenager driven by emotions, who is scared at the moment? Many reasons.

Besides, no matter how good an employer and a benevolent person Iluontar is, I don't think she would want to be on the same team as a person whose goal is to Conquer the World. Regardless of the methods chosen, Iluontar will make many enemies, and no matter how powerful a parahuman is, there are limits to all power. This is a very dangerous position and I don't think TT will want to take part in it.

I may be wrong and Iluontar can convince her, but I'm sure that won't happen in the current leading version of the plan, which is more like pushing almost all of her trauma buttons at once. Again, joining Iluontar may be a rational decision, but people don't always make rational decisions.
 
Eternal_0bserver said:
Because it's important for Tattletale to feel intellectually superior, to feel like she's in control of her life since that's her only strong point? Because he cannot be sure of the sincerity of a person who is smart enough to be able to deceive her? Because trying to recruit in her circumstances is coercion, even if mild, and not something she has pleasant associations with? Because she is a teenager driven by emotions, who is scared at the moment? Many reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Which boils down to "TT will irrationally act in ways that support my arguments because, uh, because she just will ok?". We clearly see her mo in canon, and she would absolutely jump at opportunity to get out of literal day to day mental torture. The only reason for her to not immediately try to work with us is ... well there is actually no real reason because she lucked into being able to provide info that is of extreme importance to us while we are willing to pay her for it. Hell we can ress her brother even, if she proves to be useful enough.

We don't even require servitude, a purely transactional relationship is perfectly fine because we have absurd amount of value and TT is easiest way to translate it into information we actually need.
Besides, no matter how good an employer and a benevolent person Iluontar is, I don't think she would want to be on the same team as a person whose goal is to Conquer the World. Regardless of the methods chosen, Iluontar will make many enemies, and no matter how powerful a parahuman is, there are limits to all power. This is a very dangerous position and I don't think TT will want to take part in it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah yeah, Tattletale, the famous cape who hates danger and enemies and goes out of her way to stay out of the spotlight. Man remember that time when she didn't mouth off to Jack Slash? Good times, good times.
 
Last edited:
If she chooses not to work with us, she chooses not to work with us. I think she will, but I think what matters more might be her pointing us at Coil. He's the most professional gang, and the best suited for suborning.

I'm not going to say it's guaranteed, she might not want to work with us for the same reason she dislikes Faultline, but on the other hand, I suspect she'll cooperate in the short term. I think we have a good enough read on her to get that she won't cooperate with the PRT, so we can let her go afterwards... or, once we find out more about her, we would use the resurrection of her brother as our carrot.
 
[X] Plan: Proposal for cooperation.

Yeah this is basically exactly what I wanted. Let her move at her pace or she will think we are as bad as Coil.
 
Oooh! So many replies and that, I can say I am incredibly happy with how this has been turning out! Let's see if I can pick a few things out,

JayTar said:
"I am being rescued" it might be "I am now under the thumb of another even more powerful cape I know very little about".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have yet to figure out images, so please imagine a humorous bespoke version of the "More like, 'Under new management'" Meme here.
Eternal_0bserver said:
smart enough to be able to deceive her?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much everything else in this post is either pretty insightful or something I can't give away without it being impossible knowledge, but here's the thing, being good at deception, particularly in PF or from PF, don't by default rely on your smarts. You could be a savant, and absolutely terrible at lying. Heck, for your level, you guys are surprisingly meh at Bluff, to not even get into the unintended comedy of farce that is seeing your Spellcraft and Sense Motive side by side.
Eternal_0bserver said:
She's unlikely to ever fully trust a boss who's smarter than her,
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also, here's one last thing- smarts and knowledge, especially once you get to certain things, can be very field dependent. Now, for magic, Tech, and [Unknown]? You were able to determine the metals in the operating chips of a smartphone and could successfully recreate the hardware manually by knocking on it. Once. You know your shit in those fields. In other fields, particularly when it comes to People Smarts?

Yeah, I'll just mention that that "Rare moment of interpersonal insight"? Nat 20.

It took a Natural 20 for Iluontar to even consciously realize that Tattletale was trying to rile him up.
 
JayTar said:
[X] Plan: Proposal for cooperation.

Yeah this is basically exactly what I wanted. Let her move at her pace or she will think we are as bad as Coil.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The doomsaying is getting annoying. Lisa doesn't hate Coil because of teenage rebellion drama or whatever, she hates him because he is an evil slime that tortures, drugs, murders and abducts people, including TT, and has gun to the head of every person she loves, and is more than willing to kill them for his own gain or just to punish TT.

We are exactly zero of those things.
 
Wolfy said:
The doomsaying is getting annoying. Lisa doesn't hate Coil because of teenage rebellion drama or whatever, she hates him because he is an evil slime that tortures, drugs, murders and abducts people, including TT, and has gun to the head of every person she loves, and is more than willing to kill them for his own gain or just to punish TT.

We are exactly zero of those things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, let's be clear, Tattletale is pretty petty. She didn't join Faultline because she felt Faultline was smarter than her and knew it. On the other hand, our low Bluff and Sense Motive might work for us in that case, if she can feel she's smarter than us in some particular ways, she might be content with that.
 
BurnBright said:
I mean, let's be clear, Tattletale is pretty petty. She didn't join Faultline because she felt Faultline was smarter than her and knew it. On the other hand, our low Bluff and Sense Motive might work for us in that case, if she can feel she's smarter than us in some particular ways, she might be content with that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is a number of differences in our situations. Faultline is in roughly same ballpark as TT, and is mostly operating as brains, so their roles directly clash. Faultline gets to be smart without having to resort to powers, while TT has a complex about her power being the source of her smarts. Faultline is also a direct rival as a gang leader. In comparison we are more of a supreme god being, so there is way less reason for such comparisons to take place. As far as TT is concerned we are less of a person and more of a somewhat amicable natural disaster she can profit off.

That has nothing to do with initial "NOOO WE ARE SMARTER THAN HER SO WE ARE LITERALLY COIL" comment though. She hates Coil for wide number of reasons, none of which apply to us.
 
Last edited:
Wolfy said:
The doomsaying is getting annoying. Lisa doesn't hate Coil because of teenage rebellion drama or whatever, she hates him because he is an evil slime that tortures, drugs, murders and abducts people, including TT, and has gun to the head of every person she loves, and is more than willing to kill them for his own gain or just to punish TT.

We are exactly zero of those things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not doomsaying. Logical inference based on character traits and history. She already had once very bad experience with being forcefully recruited. Once burnt twice shy.
The issue isn't that we are a better boss then Coil. It's that she doesn't know that. As bad a boss Coil is, Coil is the devil she knows, whereas we are the devil she doesn't.

With Coil she as at least made some progress. Learning his habits and subverting his organisation. Jumping ship to us would be throwing that all away. Even if we are fully benevolent, it would still be a big gamble on her part. One she might resent having been chosen for her.

We might be able to win her over in the long run by being a good boss. But at the very least backing her into a corner about her recruitment would start things off on a very sour note.
 
JayTar said:
Not doomsaying. Logical inference based on character traits and history. She already had once very bad experience with being forcefully recruited. Once burnt twice shy.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
She didn't have bad experience because she was "forcefully recruited", she had bad experience because she was emotionally tormented and all people she liked were used as hostages against her because Coil is evil slime.

On top of that we are not even "forcibly recruiting" her, we are making her an offer she can in fact refuse.
The issue isn't that we are a better boss then Coil. It's that she doesn't know that. As bad a boss Coil is, Coil is the devil she knows, whereas we are the devil she doesn't.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well then good thing she is adept at getting to know things, no?
 
Wolfy said:
She didn't have bad experience because she was "forcefully recruited", she had bad experience because she was emotionally tormented and all people she liked were used as hostages against her because Coil is evil slime.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Why not both?.jpg here. I'd imagine it was all around a deeply unpleasant time from the get go.

Also, in general, you guys can allow time to pass, y'all do know that the last Endbringer attack has happened recently enough ago that, based on their usual schedule, the next one isn't due for a little while. That and, RL it has been a bit of time since the quest started,but in terms of in In-world time, it's about noon-ish on January First, when y'all showed up at around 1 AM-ish December 31st. It has yet to be a full 48 hours/2 Days since y'all even showed up on Earth Bet, you guys are so far operating at an insane pace.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top